Unnatural Vegan vs Think Fact

 


Do Generalizations Prove Humans Are Not Omnivores?

Published on 1 Apr 2014

!!!This video is not anti-vegan or anti-vegetarian. You do you!!!

This video tackles a select a group of individuals within those communities, but not representative of those communities entirely, whom have little regard for semantics and use generalizations to defend their stance. This video tackles that strictly from their point of view, people who claim humans are not capable of being meat eaters and tackling it by supplying outliers and the counter generalizations. The reason being, it’s a video the tackles it from their perspective.

The humor and jokes are just meant to make the video something that is a bit more easy-going.

 


Pinned comment

I feel the need to clarify a few things:

1. This video was not designed to be anti-vegan or anti-vegetarian. It was designed to call out bad biology. To challenge generalizations by going after claims using outliers and counter generalizations by battling cherry picked information with selective context. Establishing that generalizations over what “every omnivore” must have is highly problematic.

2. This video tackles the specific claims certain individuals have been erroneously propagating over the “validity” of unsubstantiated generalized characteristics of omnivores, carnivores, and herbivores. Generalizations that were first put forward by a poster created in the 1970s, by the American Hygiene Society. These generalizations are problematic for all sides of the debate. Quite frankly, the arguments for veganism and vegetarianism are much more effective when you factor in the reality of our biology, context is key. Not only that, but it seems to be an unnecessary hurdle.

3. This video just discusses the fact that people can eat meat, it doesn’t say you should or even that it’s ideal.

4. This video was conditioned through the evaluation of terminology, specifically that of “omnivore.” Using a scientific definition, an omnivore is:
>>An animal that includes both plants and animals in its normal diet –

Supplement Animals may be classified based on the type of their normal diet. Animals that feed (exclusively) on animals are called carnivores. Those that feed (exclusively) on plants are called herbivores. Animals that feed both on animals and plants are referred to as omnivores.

Omnivores are a group of animals that derive energy and nutrients from a variety of food sources, such as plants and animals, as well as fungi, algae and bacteria.1 Because of the wide variety of food sources, omnivores are also called all-eaters. However, *compared with other animal groups such as carnivores and herbivores, the omnivores lack distinctive specializations in acquiring and processing food.*2

Examples of omnivores are chimpanzees, orangutans, gorillas, pigs, most bears, hedgehogs, opossums, skunks, sloths, squirrels, mice, rats, rodents, raccoons, and many others. Humans are regarded as omnivores. However, there are those who are selective in their diet and chose to feed solely on plant materials (i.e. vegans).

http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Omnivore <<

5. There are plenty of people on YouTube who are willing to discuss the efficacy, nutrition, and concerns with the usage of products ranging from meat to wool. I would invite you to check them out. My personal recommendations from that of the vegan perspective being Unnatural Vegan and TheVeganAtheist.

6. This video is by no means flawless and in the future I might make a better version that looks at the entirety of the context, rather than simply going after the claims of an individual.

So there you have it. I stand by the undoubtable fact that humans are omnivores. But simply because meat played a part in our evolution, particularly in how it shaped our behavior, doesn’t mean it needs to continue to do so. It’s up to you to make the choice.

I wish you all the best and take care.
~Dale

 


Seriously this is the weirdest defense for eating meat I’ve ever come across

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My major reason for continuing to be a slave owner is due to my admiration for culture. I enjoy being able to whip a slave knowing that someone 150+ years ago would’ve whipped the same exact way.

Seriously, this is the weirdest defense of eating meat I’ve ever come across.

Edit: I shared this as an example of cognitive dissonance and how even intelligent people will cling to the dumbest excuses to justify their bad behavior. We can throw up our hands and say “lost cause” or we can do our best to convince people like Think Fact to change. I prefer the latter approach.

 


Comment Section

 


Guled Dehay Was this on your video and which one? 😂

 


Dale Winslow Unnatural Vegan I feel you are heavily manipulating my reasoning. My reasoning for not propagating and engaging in veganism is because it destroys more than just cuisine, but also clothing, identity, relationships, and so much more. I’m all for individuals wanting to be vegan if they personally want, but I simply cannot support enforcing veganism unless the individual themselves chooses to be apart of it. To criticize a people while we live in such a privileged country that has crafted much of its identity on ideology rather than symbolism, I find extremely disheartening.

I enjoy being able to take part in cultures around the world. Because unless we see the world as they do, we cannot understand them. One day the world may become an entirely vegan society, but that will be a result of individuals choosing to drop consumption of meat and usage of animal products personally, rather than forcing it on an entire culture.

The Western world has done quite a bit of influencing and destroying of other cultures, to me this movement can go too far. If an individual from a culture wants to take part in veganism, power to them. I will not be a part of a movement to accelerate the destruction of a culture which is often done by generalizing horrific animal abuse to be in all farming operations. Because once culture/identity is gone, it’s often impossible to reobtain.

I will criticize along your side the mistreatment and disgusting nature of factory farms, but I will not generalize people around this planet because often the context of their relationship with animals is not the same as the one you are experiencing. If I’m going to go around the world and learn about people, I’m not going to impose upon them to accommodate my lifestyle.

Beyond that, I should inform you that I mostly maintain a vegetarian diet as it is unless I can ensure where the animals came from. Though I still stand by the scientific fact that humans do have the capability to consume animal products. Which is what my video discussed. Doesn’t mean you have to.

Now, I don’t want you to think of this as a personal attack, I actually really enjoy your show and I’ve watched you multiple times. You are one of my favorite Vegans on YouTube, and I often direct people to go to your channel as well as TheVeganAtheist on many issues. I feel both of you do a great job properly representing or community that has established itself on individuals redefining their own cultural habits. But that’s not for me.

Take care and be well

 


Lyssa Caprica If your identity is predicated of torturing and slaughtering animals it’s time to get an new one. Same thing goes for pretty much ever thing you listed.

 


Dale Winslow Maarten, you can judge your own culture day and night, I’m cool with that. But the problem is you have no right to eradicate cultural groups because you seemingly don’t like aspects of your own. People should have the freedom to leave, but I will not stand for anyone forcing such change on a people. We have done enough of that historically.

Lyssa, veganism often forces you to strip all animal products from your life, with there being arguments over even if animal ownership is ethical. It’s not just meat but wool, labor, and so on. For many people in the world, animals are the only way they can grow enough crops or even affordably clothe themselves. If you want to buy them all equipment\machinery and clothing and they accepted, I’m fine with that if it’s done in a considerate way, but to simply strip it all away and tell them to suck it up and make due. It’s a disgusting inconsideration.

Not all animal husbry operations are an American factory farm. Just looking at the Andes where there are countless communities that make unique clothing out of their alpaca and llama wool. They are people who have a long standing tradition of working with these animals and often have more of a mutual relationship. The Amish being another example. Living near a community of theirs I can say they are very respectful of their animals. Praying and giving thanks for them often. If you can authentically appreciate what an animal has contributed to your own life, I find that grand. But I will agree that many massive cultures have become desensitized to abuse. I have a problem with that too.

Culture is often all a people have left. How can you simply strip them of that without understanding them, with generalizations, and imposing your own cultures problems on to them? I can’t stand for that. I’m sorry.


Kimberly Burns Dale, which vegans are “forcing” their views onto others? Where are these vegan organizations or political parties that are trying to impose their way of life onto other groups of people?

It’s one thing to force people to change, and another to try to convince them to. Now, perhaps in the future, if something like 60-70% of the Western population’s gone vegan, you can see what this majority of people is up to, and maybe your arguments will hold then.

But I think they’ll rightfully point out that the freedom you’re trying to protect is the right to take away the freedoms of others: simple freedoms such as not having one’s life cut short, for instance.

I don’t know what the future holds. I think in our lifetime we are going to see a lot more people eating the kind of diet you say you eat, as well as a lot more vegans. Maybe at some point a vegan majority will try to force changes onto the rest, the same way in most cultures, the majority forces its views onto the rest. But then perhaps that’s what you should be taking issue with, the right of majorities to do this on any grounds, if you think it’s wrong for people to be forced into doing what’s right as per what the majority thinks. As it stands right now, though, the majority thinks it’s good to have the right to harm animals be protected by our laws, and the right to try to protect them is denied. I think this is going to change in the coming years, although who knows, maybe by then we’ll have different political systems, too, ones that don’t force things onto people at all but function more through co-operation (I hope so).


Dale Winslow Kimberly, I am very busy and don’t know if I can get back to you in a reasonable amount of time with everything on the matter. But, I will say in short that you will find people who do the forcing are the people who go out of their way to say that there is no exceptions, our problems are your problems. If you use animals regardless of context for anything, you are backwards. Ideas typically conditioned by their own culture and often generalizing them upon everyone and sometimes building strawman arguments to respond to reactions. Many of these people Unnatural Vegan has challenged herself which is why I respect her. Because I do understand that there are ignorant people on both sides.

Change may happen, but not everything needs to be changed for the same reasons somethings must be changed. I respect the vegan movement over challenging factory farms and questioning the sustainability of American, Aisan, and European foodways and farming practices. Something I do myself, but I do not believe the solution is abstinence in every context.

Take care.

 


Kill animals for culture? (response to Think Fact)

Published on 17 Dec 2015

Dale from Think Fact eats meat because of his “admiration for culture.” He believes that by “removing animals from our food and fashion we lose a part of our identity by means of cuisine, clothing, and so much more.” I think he’s very wrong about this and here’s why.

 


Do Generalizations Prove Humans Are Not Omnivores?

Comment section

 


 


lovingboarding

It seems like Unnatural Vegan has debunked some of your claims. Please make a response video to her!!

 


Think Fact

+lovingboarding She didn’t debunk my claim, she debunked her interpretation of what I said. She made no effort to reach out and talk to me to get an more in depth understanding of what I was talking about. She justified a video response rather than talking to me because she somehow thought my closing statement meant I didn’t even want her to reply… No. I’ll make a video some day, but it won’t be a response. I quite frankly don’t want to talk to her to produce a video response at the moment, and I won’t put her through what she put me through because all it will do is bring unnecessary hate to her.

 


 

Discussion page

 


crabe: https://www.facebook.com/unnaturalvegan/photos/…
Really?
Like…Really? You’re serious, here?
Did Swayze has answered something to that…incredible argument?

 


Think Fact: I actually really like Swayze. I find her to be very critical of even her own movement to try to pull people back on track and I admire that. But, I understand she’s built a brand around Veganism, and even when I present arguments or my cultural reasoning it would only be expected she could not simply agree with me as could not most vegans because that would be making an excuse for non-vegan behavior. They can’t have that. Which once again is what worries me about individual to try to propagate veganism.

Here’s my message to her. . .

 


crabe: Thanks for the answer, but…do you realize what you wrote? Culture?!! That…doesn’t make any sense, in a culture made at 90% of the last 50 years, and for a problematic meat consumption only in western countries…It doesn’t make any sense, at all.

The issue is cattle suffering, the issue is waste of the resources and pesticids abuse to meet the cattle needs. The meat consumption, twice a day all day by 4.4 billions western people, cut the south america forests to harvest soya, threatening aborigen cultures more than “changing diet in western world”. The issue is the GHG produced by food industry, mainly by meat and dairy production : Some sources speak about a GHG quantity produced greater by any kind of transportation means around the world, so it’s not a minor cause of global warming, at all. And it will change the earth, environment, and hence culture more than any other things in the world…and not in good, I guess…

Do you see the unbalance, the irony in your argument?

(Note that you could be meat eater or vegan : I only criticize your opinion here)

And the worst is that you can check all these informations on peer reviewed publisher website. Far from the cherry picking other vegan youtubers make sometimes, you can have your own judgement on this…But with logical, rational arguments, don’t you think?

In summary, your arguments are…sorry, but stranges. Something is missing, or not said.
I’m vegan, and nothing, nothing in my life have changed, in good or in bad. So I don’t understand your point.

Thanks anyway. Sorry for the terrible english

 


Think Fact: Veganism isn’t just about food. It’s clothing, it’s animal husbandry, it’s tradition, its identity, and much more. And nobody quite knows how far is too far. Should we all strip animals from people? The people who practice animal husbandry who treat their flocks as respectfully as pets, is that okay? Can nobody own animals? Because I am always dealing with conflicting views.

Of course countries like the United States, China, and so forth have a extremely intense factory farm operations that are absolutely disgusting, but to enforce veganism on the globe because of the monstrosities committed by western countries without considering the behaviors and smaller cultural groups found all throughout the world whether it be locals in the Andean high lands and how they incorporate llamas and alpacas in their culture, or the countless others around the world.

There is a change to a more global culture, but that has to be completely dependent on individuals wanting to be a part of it and not enforce. Western society has done enough disruption of cultures around the world, I draw the line at the implications of veganism. So long as people are enabled to have the choice to be a part of the majority culture or disassociate them with aspects of their old one, there should be no need to get involved.

Take care and be well.

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