YouTube and Patreon comments

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Table of Contents

Eisel

ModVegan

Unnatural Vegan

Stream Some Stuff

Activist Journeys

Jack Green

OGMizen

Richard The Dick Coughlan

TheVeganPolice

Indy

AMP3083

Destiny

veggieworld

Cori Wong

Rachel Tess

Edwin’s Generation

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Full list of comments categorised

Eisel Mazard

Cannibals when Convenient: Edwin’s Generation & Unnatural Vegan.

Yo, you could use this funny Rick and Morty clip on cannibalism along with short UV video: https://www.drive.google.com/open?id=1YtXAgfJGoNmzxgv6RblmZwg2Z3JJdMDJ

Also I had a thought which was in your argument for sanity you were sort of agreeing with the family members in the example UV gave of the freegan trying to explain their vegan-freeganism and it not being something coherent, but taking it further to conclude it’s not something we should want to be in that case. It reminded me of this essay by Cora Diamond; “Eating Meat and Eating People:” https://www.philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3665

Where the arguments of Singer’s Marginal Cases and Isaac’s NTT don’t have traction because when they compare examples of sentient animals to non-sentient dead human bodies, we simply wouldn’t want to eat the human either because they are morally thick concepts.

So then your nihilist argument is asking for a change in culture and instilling new images about how we relate to animals. Note the history of poetry relating to animals in the essay also. Just some reflections anyhow, Hope everything is well in Thailand.

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(1) The atrocities of anti-communists & (2) Mexie gets her own playlist.

Oh man, my brain got frazzled from information overload on sourcing videos for UV mixtape aha, but yea anytime you’re thinking about a playlist check my categorized list of your vids: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/a-bas-le-ciel-categorised/ Here’s a playlist of your animatics: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqRNOagVZDVcHJ-wmuz82Dgxw-DwC6bjF And here’s my “short,” medium and long list of videos on UV. Short List:

Medium List: activistjourneys.wordpress.com/a-bas-le-ciel-vs-unnatural-vegan And long list working off of for domestication video: Practical / Individual • Can cats and dogs eat a vegan diet? (why Sniff still eats meat) • Q&A2 (Part 5!) Cats Eating Cows (“Pet Food”). • Your Dog Hates You: “Service Animals” and Airplane Pillows. • Against Video Games The Principle of the Thing. • Re Why are vegetarians annoying (making no-meat the new norm • Can Lucy go to a wild wolf sanctuary • Why vegans shouldn’t shop (adopt don’t shop, don’t buy from a breeder) • 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (Why I Will Not Adopt Another Cat) Activism • Can cats and dogs eat a vegan diet? (why Sniff still eats meat) • 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (Why I Will Not Adopt Another Cat) • Should vegans support zoos? Are they inherently cruel? • Riddle of the Lion’s Roar Animal Sanctuaries, Zoos & Wildlife Advocacy • Vegans and the Indigenous Issue: Hunting, Domestication & the Concept of Evil. • Domestication vs. “the Wild”: Vegans & the A.R. Paradigm • Vegans don’t own pets: domestication and evil. • Is Owning Pets Vegan? (vegans alienating everybody, including each other) • 7 ways vegans alienate everybody, including each other (bad vegan activism) • Autonomy vs Dignity, Wildlife in Veganism and Ecology in the 21st century • Dogs vs. Wolves: Vegan Ethics and the Future of Activism. • Zoopolis: a NON-VEGAN Political Theory of Animal Rights • Anthropomorphism, Domestication (of Pets) vs. the Wildlife Management Paradigm. • Q&A about my “Core Message”, Domestication vs. the Wild, etc., with Alejandro. • Veganism is NOT a Social Justice Movement. • Come On, FhqwhFgads: Vegan Gains Feeds His Dog Meat. • #DOGGATE: An Analysis (Vegan Gains vs. Vegan Cheetah) • Vegan Gains bought a wolf dog from a breeder & now feeds her meat Psychology • Why Omnivore Outrage Over the Yulin Dog Meat Festival is Okay • Veganism Compassion, Contempt and Loathing • Should vegans support zoos? Are they inherently cruel? Ethical issues Wildlife management • Why vegans shouldn’t shop (adopt don’t shop, don’t buy from a breeder) • Should vegans support zoos? Are they inherently cruel? • The Mars Colony is Never Gonna Happen Outer Space is Bunk. • [Other voices: Vegan Gains is Against Pet Ownership. Here’s Why.] • [Other voices: Jae Costly reflects on pets for disabled people, trained “service animals”, etc.] • Your Dog Hates You: “Service Animals” and Airplane Pillows. • Will farm animal species go extinct if the world goes vegan? If so, does it matter? • What will happen to farmed animals if the world goes vegan? How fast can domesticated animals adapt to wild habitat • Q&A2 (Part 5!) Cats Eating Cows (“Pet Food”). • I don’t hate Eisel, but I am disappointed. Extent of disease vectors • Critique of “Terrorism Lite”: Mic the Vegan, Glenn Greenwald, etc. • 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (Why I Will Not Adopt Another Cat) More from ABLC • Vegans don’t own pets: domestication and evil. • Pet Ownership as SLAVERY (vegan / vegans / veganism) • Stop castrating dogs and cats, you twisted sicko. • Your Cat Hates You: Unnatural Vegan is Wrong, and it Really Matters. • YOUR CAT HATES YOU: yet more on pets/domestication. • The Vegan Cheetah is RIGHT About Pets – My response! • Castration: vegan excuses for enslaving animals. Unnatural Vegan. • Stop castrating dogs and cats, stop making excuses for it. • Zoos and/or/as the Meaning of Life Conversation with Jae Costl • Real Animal-Lovers Don’t Own Animals, Don’t Raise Animals, Don’t Keep Animals. • Captive Animals ARE NOT Companion Animals (Unnatural Vegan is NOT Vegan) More from UV • RE: Why I Am Not a Vegan (the1janitor) • Is Owning Pets Vegan? (vegans alienating everybody, including each other) • Can cats and dogs eat a vegan diet? (why Sniff still eats meat) • Why vegans shouldn’t shop (adopt don’t shop, don’t buy from a breeder) • 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (Why I Will Not Adopt Another Cat) • Is Destiny a psychopath? Or just delusional? (thoughts on the Vegan Gains debate) UV’s consequentialism • Tentative Vegan #1: What is Tentative Veganism? • Tentative Vegan #2: Animal Use vs Exploitation • Using Animals: Does Consent Matter? (follow-up to tentative vegan #2) • Tentative Vegan: What is the Point? (vegan advocacy…again) • RE: Why I Am Not a Vegan (the1janitor) • Dogmatic Justice vs. Morality, Animal Experimentation, etc. (Intersectionality followup 1 of 3) ABLC’s Historical Nihilism •Buddhism, Apotheosis and the History of Religion •On Historical Nihilism (历史虚无主义) and Having a Philosophy in General •Human Rights: A Nihilist’s Perspective. •Nihilism If animals don’t have animal rights, why do humans •New Values Politics, Personhood, Meaning of Life •Multiculturalism vs. Social Cohesion: “Trust” as a political concept. •Life is Suffering Have Babies Anyway. (Against Anti-Natalism) •The Nihilistic Approach to Humanitarian & Political Engagement. •Nietzsche’s “Slave Morality” (& Vegan Gains): Is Philosophy a Science or Showbusiness? •Atheism as an ideology (agnostic vs. nihilist) •Max Stirner’s philosophy (in/and my life) •Schopenhauer’s philosophy (in/and my life) •Friendship, the perpetual parting of ways. •Arbitrary “Lines” in Ecology, Ethics, and Animal Rights. (Vegan) •Ethics: Vegans, Vasectomies, Flexitarians… questions of good and evil. •Happiness, obduracy and the meaning of life. •Advice Nobody Wants to Hear [Ep. 001] •“Dogma”: Axiomatic & Pragmatic Thinking in Vegan Politics. •Ethics: Vegans, Vasectomies, Flexitarians… questions of good and evil. •Happiness is overrated, narcissism is overrated. •Happiness, obduracy and the meaning of life. •[Self-Parody:] Happiness, obduracy and the meaning of life. •Veganism is not a philosophy; vegans are not a community. •Karl Popper’s philosophy (in/and my life) •Nationalism & the mere concept of “Good People”. (vegan / vegans / veganism) •Beautiful (vegan / vegans / veganism) •Debating Meditation with Buddhists: the Fallacy of Having Faith in a Feeling… •Is Veganism based on belief? Should it be? •The Conspiracy Theory Mentality. •Practical Nihilism: Stop Believing You’re “A Good Person”. •Nihilist Philosophy: Beyond Belief (in Truth, Good & Evil

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Am I really “at war” with the Permanent Vacation lifestyle?

When you talked about it in the last vid I thought for breif moment about about doing a mixtape on your convo with and critique of Vegan Gains, I’ll probably do one showing yours Mexie’s and APV’s disagreements to give you each and viewers background, but depends whether you plan to do another video anyway, would be good segway into what currency libertarian socialist leaning policy ideas have today. I know my library projects are boring, but provides context to who’s promoting what advocacy approaches and what are their merits. The whole last 10 minutes of that Mexie vid on “What’s your ideology?” dealt with violence: https://youtu.be/rk2T8BJoMIk?t=27m53s They don’t think they could use violence themselves as a vegan buddhist, they question the punching of Richard Spencer for giving Nazis attention, but they wouldn’t be quick to denounce property damage during an important protest and would be cautious about denouncing cases where an oppressed class might have had to use violence in self-defense to avoid being killed themselves. Looks like APV is an anarcho communist and has said sees inspiration in the Zapatista peasant army because they don’t have the same hallmarks of a militarized society who use incarceration: https://youtu.be/NEWfdYyVBYI?t=13m05s I actually met her in Calais when she came down from Paris for a 1 day protest of a refugee camp eviction. Can talk all about land protests she’s inspired by like the ZAD which I’ve stayed at, whether these are really violent movements. This is a funny rap sheet I put together of press clippings and communiques: https://toleratedindividuality.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/rap-sheet.pdf Just rough quoting APV’s words on the Zapatistas, I think it does come across as naive, but she’s talking about it appealing to her for their focus on grassroots initiatives, I read the book Zapatista Spring on volunteers traveling out there to create gravity water pipes from springs to villages which had the whole village working collectively, then traveling out of the village they’d see towns with no water where the government had installed machines that no one knew how to fix: http://anarchiststudies.mayfirst.org/node/504

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Mexie is a Communist (Marxist-Leninist).

Consulted with ML guy and says the die hard anti-revisionists abandoned ship on China when it had to reform in the 90s, so ML means generally supporting most totalitarian countries calling themselves communist today, Cuba, Vietnam, etc.

“it did make sense before the 90s when Marxist Leninist Maoism existed, such as in the case of the black panthers who were marxist-leninist and were occasionally refered to as maoist because they upheld mao and his theory, even assigning Quotations From Chairman Mao Tsetung as a required reading. at the time being maoist didnt contradict being marxist-leninist, whereas being Marxist Leninist Maoist does today” presumebly because they withdrew support and are even more hardline like peruvian maoist guerilla group shining path closing down market stalls in towns or Indian group you referred to.

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Mexie is ACTUALLY a Communist.

You whole last 10 minutes of that vid Eisel dealt with violence: https://youtu.be/rk2T8BJoMIk?t=27m53s They don’t think they could use violence themselves as a vegan buddhist, they question the punching of Richard Spencer for giving Nazis attention, but they wouldn’t be quick to denounce property damage during an important protest and would be cautious about denouncing cases where an oppressed class might have had to use violence in self-defense to avoid being killed themselves. Looks like APV is an anarcho communist and has said sees inspiration in the Zapatista peasant army because they don’t have the same hallmarks of a militarized society who use incarceration: https://youtu.be/NEWfdYyVBYI?t=13m05s I actually met her in Calais when she came down from Paris for a 1 day protest of a refugee camp eviction. Can talk all about land protests she’s inspired by like the ZAD which I’ve stayed at, whether these are really violent movements. This is a funny rap sheet I put together of press clippings and communiques: https://toleratedindividuality.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/rap-sheet.pdf

Just rough quoting APV’s words on the Zapatistas, I think it does come across as naive, but she’s talking about it appealing to her for their focus on grassroots initiatives, I read the book Zapatista Spring on volunteers traveling out there to create gravity water pipes from springs to villages which had the whole village working collectively, then traveling out of the village they’d see towns with no water where the government had installed machines that no one knew how to fix: http://anarchiststudies.mayfirst.org/node/504

 

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Freeganism

Some subjects that tie into this for your consideration: 1. I know your channel deals with meta-activism critique, and that people come to your channel in unique and personal ways before being convinced of veganism, but if you were to attempt a general “Introduction to veganism” playlist, what videos of yours would you chose if you had to pick and who else’s also like Melanie Joy. 2. What are your thoughts on these survey questions to test for rational / pragmatic vegan advocates: philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Vegan_YouTubers And 3. Am I right in characterizing your answer to no.6 that, ‘there is some negative virtue attached to consuming oysters knowing they may be sentient, to using waste animal products, adopting pets or wearing 2nd hand leather because it all perverts the maximum capabilities you can be achieving on your own, within your community’? And that dense wildlife habitat that can sustain the most life can be understood as something politically beautiful we project onto other animals whilst we carry on our separate societal evolution. That is, it relates to your desire to build up the institutions and facilities of the vegan community. Some links: Philosophical Vegan Wiki – Freeganism philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism Vegan Video Resource Library – Freeganism activistjourneys.wordpress.com/freeganism My list: Animal Liberation political movement + Vegan/Freegan diet & lifestyle youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqRNOagVZDVeB9SLoqzLndhQAiXdIEg59

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Theo did follow up with KanadaJin3 (debate surrounding Islam, etc.)

Not many places for the conversation to go when she’s made it clear she’s stuck on still happily providing apologetics for slavery. But those last tweets from her should be pretty illuminating for anyone who is fans of hers; ‘go to an Imam, if you get anything wrong, I’ll show you what’s right,’ completely unfalsifiable belief. Sadly it’s a position many accept.

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First Nations on Dead Man Analysis – Psychedelic Western, Colonialism & Spiritual Purgatory [Mirrored Clips]

Eisel

Meh. Is the film really interested in “purgatory”, or was it made by someone with strong feelings about indigenous culture and its disappearance (i.e., genocide) in North America, but no clear plan as to how to transform that into a script/plot. The same thematic concerns (i.e., the palpable absence of Native Americans / First Nations) comes up (briefly) in Jim Jarmusch’s Ghost Dog —in _Dead Man_, by contrast, I think it is “the main thing” being discussed. However, I think the script is just a sort of aimless/meandering meditation on these themes. Not all films “have a point”, and, indeed, not all films have a plot. :-/ If you’re going to interpret the film as having a thesis, that thesis is not about purgatory, it’s about America, and the yearning for the absence of native culture to really matter (whereas living in 21st century Los Angeles, it seems totally absent, etc.).

Theo Slade

Definitely the genocide of first nations peoples and culture was the main theme, purgatory simply being the plot device for us to see Blake waiting to both die, accept his death-spiral and relate to the first nations people who know their attempts to resist the colonizers are pretty useless, but important nonetheless. The similarities with the character Nobody’s absurd existence, but at the same time to find some dignity in holding onto their customs anyway, an authentic intuitive self that is able to appreciate suffering and isn’t stifled by pride or anxiety, ready for his final canoe burial, prepared having already experienced what it’s like to let his spirit free (also helps him be a great gun slinger I guess aha).

I can understand your frustration with the aimlessness, it’s directors masturbation to chock it full of symbolism for fans to unpick, and have a surreal arty feel for kids to want to buy into, something they can try to experience with peyote or shrooms. That’s why I think the analysis’s author labels the big secret meaning purgatory, because in the longer version linked he’s showing all the evidence for his reincarnation theory and attonment for past life sins. I did like the idea that Jarmusch centered the coded dialogue around tobacco, a precious resource in many primitive societies even today to which some polytheist/animist significance would be held.

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Near Earth Satelites to limit Climate Change on [Mirror] New Podcast: The Vegan Vanguard

Huh interesting, yea only found the channel recently so didn’t capture that when creating archive. Economics and environmentalist geography now from what I can tell: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/mexie-full-list-2/

At 1:20:10 Mexie talks about the possible solution to climate change you promoted; blocking out the suns rays possibly over polar regions. I think it’s one of the top issues I’ve seen you get criticized for around the internet, if you wanted to clarify whether you’ve done any further research on that.

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Libertarianism on Stop Treating Native Americans Like Infants (vs. Mexie & Privileged Vegan)

Timing! They just started a podcast together:

The Vegan Vanguard: Why Leftists Should Be Vegan

I agree too much paternalism to an extent. I think the videos come out of responding to; “oh you want to right some of the wrongs done to black, indigenous people, but they’re the worst offenders of things you’re against!” But it’s like SOME of that is tied together, like having a culture of eating “soul food” animal scraps since slavery or being miles away from stores which actually sell healthy food.

There is an anarchic desire going on for leveraging the grassroots will of many different autonomous communities, seeing potential in fighting oil pipelines and golf courses based on treaty rights. And it does impact my thinking on a number of issues in your videos like religion and geopolitics:

“Saba Mahmood: Religious Liberty, the Minority Problem and Geopolitics

Dealing with the limits of minority rights struggles that the christian Copts of Egypt were engaged in which was causing tension with the Muslim brotherhood socialist conceptions of citizenship because one was pan-Arab and the other identifying with the liberal West. How the root cause might have been or still affects to this day neo-colonial nationalist despots eroding the autonomous place Coptic society had under the Ottoman Empire and with that both groups had retreated into a divisive identity nationalism.

Beyond free and equal; the limits of liberal democracy

“Finally, I conclude the dissertation by utilizing the framework developed in the preceding chapters to reflect on two distinctive forms of politics rooted in my own Sikh community and tradition. The first is a modern, subintern politics that largely abstracts away from the content of Sikhi in the course of struggling for inclusion or accommodation into liberal-democratic norms and institutions. The second is a subaltern ethico-politics that struggles to live a Sikh way of life in the face of the broad array of assimilative forces of modernity. I argue that the latter is emerging in the cracks and interstices of the modern project, indeed transgressing the boundaries which that project seeks to impose. In doing so, it points beyond itself, toward the possibility and actuality of diverse modes of praxis, grounded in subaltern traditions, that only taken together in their irreducible diversity can begin to constitute a post-imperial pluriverse.”

Would love to see a video on right libertarian/ancap and it’s parallel left libertarian/ancom labor theory of value.

What Do Anarchists Think About Animal Liberation? – anarchopac

ON THE ROAD – Saul Newman – Fantasie rivoluzionarie e zone autonome

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You are NOT VEGAN if you PAY TAXES. By Jason Pizzino

Re: Stefan Molyneux (On Satanism and Socialism) by OGMizen

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I’m calling in my accrued share of a whopping £3. You have my full backing to bad mouth Mexie, APV, Reg, anarchopac, even me aha, I’ll give you all the ammo you need:

https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/activist-journeys-1-working-progress/ https://toleratedindividuality.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/rap-sheet.pdf https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3019

FROM BAKUNIN TO LACAN: Anti-authoritarianism and the dislocation of power by Saul Newman

Chapter Three: Stirner and the Politics of the Ego

https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3416

Creative Nihilism

Stirner’s use of the war model, because it finds emptiness rather than essence at the base of existence, is nihilistic; but the nihilism that it produces is a creative nihilism. It creates a theoretical opening for a play of differences in interpretation. Gilles Deleuze sees Stirner as “the dialectician who reveals nihilism as the truth of the dialectic.”218 He exposes the nihilism, the closure, the denial of difference and plurality that essentialism and dialectical logic produce. However, for Stirner, the way to counter these discourses is not through simple transgression, not by affirming immorality over morality, irrationality over rationality, the un-man over man. This kind of transgression merely reaffirms, in a negative sense, the authority of the dominant idea. Crime, for instance, only reaffirms the law that it has transgressed against.219 Similarly to Nietzsche, Stirner argues that it is only by thinking outside the binaristic logic of authority and its transgression that one can escape the oppressive dialectic of place, the constant replacement of one form of authority with another—the movement from God to man, from the state to society, from religion to morality. It is by inventing new ideas—like uniqueness and egoism—rather than reacting to the established ones, which allows thought, particularly political thought, to escape its own authoritarian tendencies. It is perhaps this aspect of Stirner’s thinking that prompted John P. Clark’s criticism of him from the anarchist perspective. Clark argues that Stirner’s egoism leads him to defend the very authoritarianism that he would seem to denounce. Stirner’s position, claims Clark, would lead to a valorization of the will to power and individual domination.220 Furthermore, Clark argues that Stirner’s rejection of social totalities and essences, and his positing of an ego which Clark sees as wholly autonomous and fictitious, precludes him from having any political or social relevance.221 This is in contrast to anarchism which, Clark argues, because it has a clear picture of human nature, of the self as essentially a social being, is ethically and politically valid today.222 In this chapter, however, I have argued precisely the opposite. The first criticism that Clark makes can be rejected: we have seen that Stirner’s egoism, and his use of the war metaphor, is more about achieving power over oneself—through the idea of ownness—than power over others. As to the second criticism, I have argued that it is precisely through Stirner’s rejection of essence and totality that we are able to engage in political action. Stirner has opened up a theoretical space for politics that was hitherto confined by the limits of essentialism and rationality. His critique of human essence has enabled us to theorize a political identity that is contingent and open to reinvention by the individual. So rather than classical anarchism, with its Enlightenment humanist paradigm of essence, being the way forward as Clark argues, it is precisely this paradigm that holds us back, theoretically and politically. Stirner’s fundamental break with this paradigm allows us to reinvent politics in ways that are not limited by essence. I have argued so far that anarchism is reliant on an uncontaminated point of departure outside power, which is embodied by an Enlightenment notion of essential human subjectivity. Now, in light of Stirner’s critique, this whole paradigm of power and resistance needs to be rethought. Stirner’s rejection of humanism has shown that not only is the notion of human essence an illusion, it is also intimately linked to state authority and practices of domination. Stirner explores, in a way unprecedented, the subtle connections between identity, politics, and power. He rejects the old humanist politics based on essential identity, moral absolutism, and unquestioned rational truth, and forces us to look at the inadequacies of revolutionary political theory—its hidden perils; its silent authoritarian murmurings. Stirner thus goes beyond both Marxism and anarchism, creating the possibility for a new way of theorizing politics—a possibility which will be developed by poststructuralism. Stirner occupies a point of rupture in this discussion: the point at which anarchism can no longer deal adequately with the very problematic that it created—the problem of the place of power. He is the catalyst, then, for an epistemological break, or perhaps more accurately, a break with epistemology altogether. Above all, Stirner’s explorations into the nature of power, morality, and subjectivity, have made it impossible to continue to conceptualize an uncontaminated point of departure, the pure place of resistance which anarchism relied so heavily upon. There is no longer any place outside power which political theory can find sanctuary in. Politics must now work within the confines of power—and this is where the ideas of Michel Foucault will be important. It is to his work that we now turn our attention.

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I’m calling in my accrued share of a whopping £3. You have my full backing to bad mouth Mexie, APV, Reg, anarchopac, even me aha, I’ll give you all the ammo you need: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/activist-journeys-1-working-progress/ https://toleratedindividuality.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/rap-sheet.pdf https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3019 FROM BAKUNIN TO LACAN: Anti-authoritarianism and the dislocation of power by Saul Newman Chapter Three: Stirner and the Politics of the Ego https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3416 Creative Nihilism Stirner’s use of the war model, because it finds emptiness rather than essence at the base of existence, is nihilistic; but the nihilism that it produces is a creative nihilism. It creates a theoretical opening for a play of differences in interpretation. Gilles Deleuze sees Stirner as “the dialectician who reveals nihilism as the truth of the dialectic.”218 He exposes the nihilism, the closure, the denial of difference and plurality that essentialism and dialectical logic produce. However, for Stirner, the way to counter these discourses is not through simple transgression, not by affirming immorality over morality, irrationality over rationality, the un-man over man. This kind of transgression merely reaffirms, in a negative sense, the authority of the dominant idea. Crime, for instance, only reaffirms the law that it has transgressed against.219 Similarly to Nietzsche, Stirner argues that it is only by thinking outside the binaristic logic of authority and its transgression that one can escape the oppressive dialectic of place, the constant replacement of one form of authority with another—the movement from God to man, from the state to society, from religion to morality. It is by inventing new ideas—like uniqueness and egoism—rather than reacting to the established ones, which allows thought, particularly political thought, to escape its own authoritarian tendencies. It is perhaps this aspect of Stirner’s thinking that prompted John P. Clark’s criticism of him from the anarchist perspective. Clark argues that Stirner’s egoism leads him to defend the very authoritarianism that he would seem to denounce. Stirner’s position, claims Clark, would lead to a valorization of the will to power and individual domination.220 Furthermore, Clark argues that Stirner’s rejection of social totalities and essences, and his positing of an ego which Clark sees as wholly autonomous and fictitious, precludes him from having any political or social relevance.221 This is in contrast to anarchism which, Clark argues, because it has a clear picture of human nature, of the self as essentially a social being, is ethically and politically valid today.222 In this chapter, however, I have argued precisely the opposite. The first criticism that Clark makes can be rejected: we have seen that Stirner’s egoism, and his use of the war metaphor, is more about achieving power over oneself—through the idea of ownness—than power over others. As to the second criticism, I have argued that it is precisely through Stirner’s rejection of essence and totality that we are able to engage in political action. Stirner has opened up a theoretical space for politics that was hitherto confined by the limits of essentialism and rationality. His critique of human essence has enabled us to theorize a political identity that is contingent and open to reinvention by the individual. So rather than classical anarchism, with its Enlightenment humanist paradigm of essence, being the way forward as Clark argues, it is precisely this paradigm that holds us back, theoretically and politically. Stirner’s fundamental break with this paradigm allows us to reinvent politics in ways that are not limited by essence. I have argued so far that anarchism is reliant on an uncontaminated point of departure outside power, which is embodied by an Enlightenment notion of essential human subjectivity. Now, in light of Stirner’s critique, this whole paradigm of power and resistance needs to be rethought. Stirner’s rejection of humanism has shown that not only is the notion of human essence an illusion, it is also intimately linked to state authority and practices of domination. Stirner explores, in a way unprecedented, the subtle connections between identity, politics, and power. He rejects the old humanist politics based on essential identity, moral absolutism, and unquestioned rational truth, and forces us to look at the inadequacies of revolutionary political theory—its hidden perils; its silent authoritarian murmurings. Stirner thus goes beyond both Marxism and anarchism, creating the possibility for a new way of theorizing politics—a possibility which will be developed by poststructuralism. Stirner occupies a point of rupture in this discussion: the point at which anarchism can no longer deal adequately with the very problematic that it created—the problem of the place of power. He is the catalyst, then, for an epistemological break, or perhaps more accurately, a break with epistemology altogether. Above all, Stirner’s explorations into the nature of power, morality, and subjectivity, have made it impossible to continue to conceptualize an uncontaminated point of departure, the pure place of resistance which anarchism relied so heavily upon. There is no longer any place outside power which political theory can find sanctuary in. Politics must now work within the confines of power—and this is where the ideas of Michel Foucault will be important. It is to his work that we now turn our attention.

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Reformed benign monotheism? on That’s a wrap! The End of the KanadaJin3 Debate.

Re: “yes, the historical reality of how Islam destroyed other cultures and people in India, in Southeast Asia, etc. matters” It would have been interesting to get a reformist or “abstractionist” Muslim’s take on this, rather than the dumbest of the dumb apologetics you were offered that; “the book is perfect, but man is not.” For example I can imagine someone making the case that at the time monotheism was filtering into the Arabian Peninsula and North Africa, that SOMEONE was “destined” to “receive” revelations from that god who was going to improve upon it, that it’s just unfortunate that Jewish code to kill apostates was kept in, that a more peaceful filtering down of monotheism from kings would have been better (like in Buddhism)… this is all to say would be interesting to hear the case that a benign monotheism attached to pre-existing traditions might have been a force for good in unifying tribes and advancing science, civilisations etc. And that a reformist/abstractionist religious practice can play a part today in helping the disenfranchised find a voice by using fables in their holy book to find solidarity with each other (Saba Mahmood’s Politics of Piety), whereas fundamentalists and neocon war mongering cannot. Obviously I’m on the side of rationality and judging history by the facts, would just have been nice to get SOME argument from the other side e.g. that Islam as an ideology was the best of a bad bunch that had traction at the time.

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Burqa bans on Kanadajin3 Replies: Slavery & Racism in Islam!

What do you think she meant by US Army makes slaves? My mind went to unpaid labor contracts and the playing off one population against another without providing safety for those collaborating. But I guess she just means prisoners or some grand conspiracy. http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/3/7/after-12-years-ofwarlaborabusesrampantonusbasesinafghanistan.html

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Hmm yeah that would certainly lose it’s significance. And plays into the idea they could be seduced by more extreme narratives based on sentiment alone.

Thoughts on burqa bans and it’s culturally conservative geographic history?

“. . .under the Taliban one regional style of veiling or covering associated with a respectable but not elite class, was imposed on everyone as “religiously” appropriate, even though previously there had been many different styles, popular or traditional with different groups and classes” – org.uib.no/smi/seminars/Pensum/Abu-Lughod.pdf

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Professional Illustrator on Seeking an illustrator for a VEGAN storybook (children’s picture book)

If the goal is to try and get it mass produced on bookshelves, could you not try to put it in the hands of a popular illustrator you know publishes regularly, who is familiar with the industry, looking for a script, etc. By promising to contribute like a 15K deposit and only asking for 5-20% share of any profits? I grew up on so many of those painted fantasy kids books where the illustrations were the main feature: https://www.pinterest.co.uk/theoslade1/childrens-illustrations/

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H.S.Ross on Overpopulation: Vegan Gains vs. Unnatural Vegan (vs. Reality).

Oh cool, good back and forth, I agree. H.S.Ross often has a lot of well researched information to impart, would be good to see more of him discussing your vids on here or on youtube. Didn’t check to see if there were comments, will post mine there also.

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Video Essay style on Vegan “Purity”: Collaborating with Hunters to Save the Hunted, etc.

Argh so much material to work with, not complaining aha, I just had the against anti-natalism video clipped for you contrasting your maximizing policy impact vs. the “reducing your circle of impact” comment, so useful to get it again in the context of wildlife management. Maybe you could do a video on your time as an academic journal editor, and your now autobiographical gonzo style one shot video essays. Any writers prose you saw value in emulating, and what research, note-taking you’d do to create an interesting and concise narrative before giving a comprehensive lecture on wildlife management opportunities in Canada for example. I’m like a kid in a candy store trying to decide what to cut out of the next two compilation videos: Practical / Individual advice • Can cats and dogs eat a vegan diet? (why Sniff still eats meat) • Q&A2 (Part 5!) Cats Eating Cows (“Pet Food”). • Your Dog Hates You: “Service Animals” and Airplane Pillows. • Can Lucy go to a wild wolf sanctuary • Why vegans shouldn’t shop (adopt don’t shop, don’t buy from a breeder) • 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (Why I Will Not Adopt Another Cat) Activism • Can cats and dogs eat a vegan diet? (why Sniff still eats meat) • 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (Why I Will Not Adopt Another Cat) • Should vegans support zoos? Are they inherently cruel? • Riddle of the Lion’s Roar Animal Sanctuaries, Zoos & Wildlife Advocacy • Vegans and the Indigenous Issue: Hunting, Domestication & the Concept of Evil. • Domestication vs. “the Wild”: Vegans & the A.R. Paradigm • Vegans don’t own pets: domestication and evil. • Is Owning Pets Vegan? (vegans alienating everybody, including each other) • 7 ways vegans alienate everybody, including each other (bad vegan activism) • Autonomy vs Dignity, Wildlife in Veganism and Ecology in the 21st century • Dogs vs. Wolves: Vegan Ethics and the Future of Activism. • Zoopolis: a NON-VEGAN Political Theory of Animal Rights • Anthropomorphism, Domestication (of Pets) vs. the Wildlife Management Paradigm. • Q&A about my “Core Message”, Domestication vs. the Wild, etc., with Alejandro. • Veganism is NOT a Social Justice Movement. • Come On, FhqwhFgads: Vegan Gains Feeds His Dog Meat. • #DOGGATE: An Analysis (Vegan Gains vs. Vegan Cheetah) • Vegan Gains bought a wolf dog from a breeder & now feeds her meat Psychology • Why Omnivore Outrage Over the Yulin Dog Meat Festival is Okay • Veganism Compassion, Contempt and Loathing • Should vegans support zoos? Are they inherently cruel? Ethical issues Wildlife management • Why vegans shouldn’t shop (adopt don’t shop, don’t buy from a breeder) • Should vegans support zoos? Are they inherently cruel? • [Other voices: Vegan Gains is Against Pet Ownership. Here’s Why.] • [Other voices: Jae Costly reflects on pets for disabled people, trained “service animals”, etc.] • Your Dog Hates You: “Service Animals” and Airplane Pillows. • Will farm animal species go extinct if the world goes vegan? If so, does it matter? • What will happen to farmed animals if the world goes vegan? How fast can domesticated animals adapt to wild habitat • Q&A2 (Part 5!) Cats Eating Cows (“Pet Food”). • I don’t hate Eisel, but I am disappointed. Extent of disease vectors • Critique of “Terrorism Lite”: Mic the Vegan, Glenn Greenwald, etc. • 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (Why I Will Not Adopt Another Cat) More from ABLC • Vegans don’t own pets: domestication and evil. • Pet Ownership as SLAVERY (vegan / vegans / veganism) • Stop castrating dogs and cats, you twisted sicko. • Your Cat Hates You: Unnatural Vegan is Wrong, and it Really Matters. • YOUR CAT HATES YOU: yet more on pets/domestication. • The Vegan Cheetah is RIGHT About Pets – My response! • Castration: vegan excuses for enslaving animals. Unnatural Vegan. • Stop castrating dogs and cats, stop making excuses for it. • Zoos and/or/as the Meaning of Life Conversation with Jae Costl • Real Animal-Lovers Don’t Own Animals, Don’t Raise Animals, Don’t Keep Animals. • Captive Animals ARE NOT Companion Animals (Unnatural Vegan is NOT Vegan) More from UV • RE: Why I Am Not a Vegan (the1janitor) • Is Owning Pets Vegan? (vegans alienating everybody, including each other) • Can cats and dogs eat a vegan diet? (why Sniff still eats meat) • Why vegans shouldn’t shop (adopt don’t shop, don’t buy from a breeder) • 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (Why I Will Not Adopt Another Cat) • Is Destiny a psychopath? Or just delusional? (thoughts on the Vegan Gains debate) UV’s consequentialism • Tentative Vegan #1: What is Tentative Veganism? • Tentative Vegan #2: Animal Use vs Exploitation • Using Animals: Does Consent Matter? (follow-up to tentative vegan #2) • Tentative Vegan: What is the Point? (vegan advocacy…again) • RE: Why I Am Not a Vegan (the1janitor) • Dogmatic Justice vs. Morality, Animal Experimentation, etc. (Intersectionality followup 1 of 3) ABLC’s Historical Nihilism •Buddhism, Apotheosis and the History of Religion •On Historical Nihilism (历史虚无主义) and Having a Philosophy in General •Human Rights: A Nihilist’s Perspective. •Nihilism If animals don’t have animal rights, why do humans •New Values Politics, Personhood, Meaning of Life •Multiculturalism vs. Social Cohesion: “Trust” as a political concept. •Life is Suffering Have Babies Anyway. (Against Anti-Natalism) •The Nihilistic Approach to Humanitarian & Political Engagement. •Nietzsche’s “Slave Morality” (& Vegan Gains): Is Philosophy a Science or Showbusiness? •Atheism as an ideology (agnostic vs. nihilist) •Max Stirner’s philosophy (in/and my life) •Schopenhauer’s philosophy (in/and my life) •Friendship, the perpetual parting of ways. •Arbitrary “Lines” in Ecology, Ethics, and Animal Rights. (Vegan) •Ethics: Vegans, Vasectomies, Flexitarians… questions of good and evil. •Happiness, obduracy and the meaning of life. •Advice Nobody Wants to Hear [Ep. 001] •“Dogma”: Axiomatic & Pragmatic Thinking in Vegan Politics. •Ethics: Vegans, Vasectomies, Flexitarians… questions of good and evil. •Happiness is overrated, narcissism is overrated. •Happiness, obduracy and the meaning of life. •[Self-Parody:] Happiness, obduracy and the meaning of life. •Veganism is not a philosophy; vegans are not a community. •Karl Popper’s philosophy (in/and my life) •Nationalism & the mere concept of “Good People”. (vegan / vegans / veganism) •Beautiful (vegan / vegans / veganism) •Debating Meditation with Buddhists: the Fallacy of Having Faith in a Feeling… •Is Veganism based on belief? Should it be? •The Conspiracy Theory Mentality. •Practical Nihilism: Stop Believing You’re “A Good Person”. •Nihilist Philosophy: Beyond Belief (in Truth, Good & Evil).

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Buddhist inspired psychology, morality and politics on Skepticism vs. Meditation (& Unnatural Vegan)

Yay, great video! I had to take a phone call at the time missing the middle bit. I was also talking to Tristan about how buddhist enlightenment narratives growing up gave us a safety net to abandon any sentiments of gods before taking the plunge into nihilistic atheism.

Would love more videos capturing the existential virtue ethics of Buddhist doctrines effect on particular places and times in culture without glamorizing it, like its later effect on Europe from Hume, Schopenhauer, Heidegger and Wittgenstein to the later hippy dippy Watts and Kerouac.

New book out to review I’m reading called ‘Why Buddhism is True; The Science and Philosophy of Meditation and Enlightenment ’ by Robert Wright (pirated e-book link) – Lots of sad/funny gossip to tell about how his best-seller ‘NonZero’ chimed with Clinton in much the same way as how Buckley of the National Review had the ear of Reagan. And has debated live and critiqued the New Atheists; Hitchens, Harris, Dennet and Krauss trying to push his brand of 50/50 new agnosticism: Latest podcast with Harris where they’ve come round to agreeing on meditation

The book is based on the lecture series Buddhism & Modern Psychology , drawing on conversations with neuroscientists about the subjective self acting as press secretary for competing modules of the brain, and philosophers on the site he runs that liken this to a naturalist anti-reductionist manifest image first proposed by Wilfrid Sellars:

The Scientific Image of Man

Kauffman: In other words, it’s not just about the world from a neutral description, from a neutral vantage point, it’s about the world as represented by people, all right? And that’s why a world that has normativity in it, that has agency in it. In the neutrally described world of science, there is no agency, that dryer, there is no normativity to me and are no values.

Massimo: That’s right and I think that’s why, the tension there I think comes out, still out of the fact that even though other scientists, even today in the 21st century suffer from physics envy. And so the physics has been, since Galileo and Newton, you know the paragon of science, and yes it is a great science, is a great approach to reality, but it is in fact the furthest away from the subjective point of view, from the normative point of view and so on and so forth. What biology gets closer and then definitely the social sciences get right there, and that’s why we have a plurality of Sciences, that’s why we’re not going to do away with the social sciences and reduce it to biology and then when we’ve got just biology reduce it to physics, that project to me is a non-starter, it makes no sense.

“Norms are not reduced away in Stellars naturalism…” and it’s important to remember that he is in fact a naturalist, he does accept the scientific image, doesn’t question it, doesn’t reject it, he’s not a mysticist, you know nothing like that. “He accommodates normativity, not as a basic ontological feature of the world, but whether as a conceptually irreducible indispensable aspect of the distinctively human activity, that ground’s those human activities,” so that I think is a very reasonable way of looking at them.

Here’s an event he moderated called:

Mysticism and Activism

“Can meditation (and contemplative practice in general) dampen the activist impulse? Does spirituality encourage detachment from the world’s problems? Or can mystical practice inform and energize political activism? Union Theological Seminary Visiting Professor of Science and Religion Robert Wright moderates a panel discussion on mysticism and activism.”

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And a collection of other Buddhist inspired psychology, morality and politics that might take your interest for commenting on:

The Selfless Mind Personality: Consciousness and Nirvana in Early Buddhism by Peter Harvey:

“A philosophical denial is just a view, a theory… It does not get one actually to examine all the things that one really does identify with… as ‘self’ or ‘I’. This examination, in a calm meditative context, is what the not-self teaching aims at. It is not so much a thing to be thought about as to be done.”

Moonshadows, Conventional Truth in Buddhist Philosophy by The Cowherds:

“Alice, with more upāya and less attachment, sees a social problem. After some kind words to the child, she gets involved with a charitable organization that helps to eliminate the industry of child begging. Her actions have a much more positive effect and occupy much more of her time and attention. She never feels satisfied with the results but continues to strive. This marks the difference between aspirational bodhicitta and engaged bodhicitta , as well as the difference between acting from sympathy and acting from karuṇā . All three of these actors are on the bodhisattva path, but they are at very different stages, and each stage requires apprehension of conventional truth and engagement with conventional reality. It is the difference in the mode and depth of the engagement that makes the moral difference. While giving the coins to the child may fi t the act-type “giving” (if understood merely as the act of doing something good for one in need), it falls far short of instantiating the Mahāyāna virtue of generosity understood as rooted in great compassion. Of course, variety in situations will often call for variety of response; placing bread in a child’s hand may be appropriate in some circumstances but not others.”

Nostalgia for the Buddha by Glen Wallis:/

“I am not satisfied with this story. It warms my heart, yes, and it lifts me up; but I am not happy with it. I find it dissatisfying on two fronts. First, as a long-time student of Indian Buddhism, I know better than to believe that there is any evidence for, well, virtually any of it. Neither can I ignore the fact that the story, as commonly related, stems from the pen—and the luxuriant imagination—of a man named Ashvaghosha. Ashvaghosha lived in the first or second century A.D. He was a world-class poet who took on the enormous creative challenge of recasting the story of the Buddha in the style of high literature that was popular in his day, that of ornate Sanskrit poetry. Working from basic templates that had been around for centuries, Ashvaghosha, as poets do, embellished, enhanced, expanded, and, when necessary, made up from scratch whatever he deemed necessary for his work of art. His achievement, titled Buddhacharita, or The Life of the Buddha, was monumental. Ashvaghosha was so good at what he did, that, here we are, two millennia later, recounting his tale. The poet, though, can’t be blamed for the fact that we read his creation as biography. So why do we do so?”

Naturalizing Buddhism Without Being Reductive; a radical, and ridiculously arrogant, reinvention of Buddhist thought by Tom Pepper:

“The historical emergence of Buddhism, what we might in Badiou’s terms call the Buddha Event, occurred at a time when the stagnation of the social system was becoming particularly difficult to maintain. The existing World of the ruling class sought to fix the social system, by insisting on the existence of a pure divine language in which truth existed, and the repetition of formal ritual. The truth that appeared in the world was the rejection of the Brahmanical ideology, the recognition of the socially produced nature of social formations, the chance to break out of stagnation and open up new possibilities for the exercise of human productive and creative potential. Buddhism, in short, is an attempt to produce a new social practice that enables a subject capable of escaping the endless circle of the reproduction of the existing relations of production—a primarily agricultural form of production and a “sacrificial” form of distribution and exchange. The history of Buddhism ever since can be seen as a struggle between the reactionary, obscurantist, and faithful subject, the dialectic of radical forcing of truth and mystical or institutional strategies of containment.

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Property damage, Lea P, Yorkley and domestication update on Critique of “Terrorism Lite”: Mic the Vegan, Glenn Greenwald, etc.

^You talk a fair bit about the ALF and SHAC in that last video just watched whilst editing clips.

Funny story, I actually met Lea P. for a few days after her interview with you on a squatted land project near Bristol where we talked about the road protest movement and covert property damage. If you’re still in contact with her you can ask her about Yorkley Court Community Farm, her head was still done in from Durian cult, and we were simple veg box schemers who could offer free food and board (legitimate ownership dispute, where lawyer neglected to find tenant farmers next of kin in community trust when he died without leaving a will and started process to auction off for his profit).

11 hours of content on living with domesticated animals between yous to edit down btw, downloaded them all aha:

Playlist On Domestication

Really interesting video by jAe Costly:

Can Lucy go to a “wild” wolf sanctuary? – My response to Jasmine

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Privacy video on Teaching ESL in China WITHOUT Speaking Chinese.

Yo Eisel, produced another mixtape of yours and UV’s content, there were a few of your comments from this patreon I thought helped bring light to the situation I’d like to include, so ironically now asking you the subject of the video, how you feel about making a few up to now semi-private things public, it’s unlisted at the moment so you can take a look: à-bas-le-ciel vs. Unnatural Vegan On Privacy [Retracted for further editing] P.S. I get if you want a simple rule like what’s written in patreon stays in patreon, I’ll only be bugging you to approve several more after this aha. I just have a real thing for archiving, gots to sort and catalogue everything into neat bundles. One of the precious things about zine culture was the spontaneity of it, though even there I wanted to help more collaborations happen by making lists of contacts of self-employed writers. It’s just that impulse in academia to want to tie the best parts of everything you’re reading together isn’t it and find out where the authentic connections lie. There’s definitely a point of diminishing return like the old farts in The Citadel of GOT who in their ivory tower have lost touch with the workings of the land they propose to know what will happen to.

Much appreciated for the salient advice! I imagined who’s giving out ad hominum and who’s using reasonable critique to fit into the last video but it kind of did overflow into this one. The original series of videos planned was: ABLC + UV collaboration ABLC vs. UV Debate (4 Parts): On Privacy 0. Email privacy 1. The inevitability of dirt spreading (as reason to talk private info to set record) 2. Public / Private relevancy further back for Eisel 2a) Eisel storybooking sent emails 2b) Eisel and Suaze’s own limit (parents / baby) On Domestication On Consequentialism (Singer and effective altruism vs. historical nihilism) On Critique I can see how the backing music was overly repetitive, and final videos trailed off without really fitting or wrapping up well, will take them out or clip down to few seconds. Definitely agree need more snappy title. And thanks a bunch for permission on pictures! Will put patreon link at top of the description. It is really great seeing all the people have their outlooks changed on everything from immigration to domestication.

It’s up: Edit: nope, copyright claimed Next compilation on Domestication I should be able to work entirely from the plentiful amount of videos online, it’s always interesting to go back and read the discussions for my sake anyways P.S. Dang the track I went all the effort to replace it with has been blocked and has blocked the video in the process, the other song from the same artist is allowed and says ad revenue will go to them, just bizarre. P.P.S. Ochay well after meticulously cutting just the right amount of Fugees How Many Mics to get the best rap lyrics, you’re now left with somewhat cheesy jingoistic nightmares on wax song that was easy to split, fade in and out without changing: Edit: Changed music again. Still not thought of exciting title. P.P.P.S. Final edit, you got me paranoid over music aha, this time too much lyrics over people trying to read pictures, gone back towards background lounge music. Unnatural Vegan vs à-bas-le-ciel: on making the personal/private – public

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inmendham and OGMizen on The Respectable Face of Anti-Natalism.

I drew up notes with the thought of making my first video on camera responding to this guy after his response to OGMizen just when his baby Theo died. He debunks himself often enough reminding us that his words are just the product of scar tissue basically rerouted brain tissue through long-term depression he’s grown too used to to abandon. He’s just a negative utilitarian who doesn’t see any virtue in accepting the limits of human control, it’s bizarrely religious in that he clings to the sense that the only meaning could come from if there were a merciful god that would fix all of nature. Rational Wiki’s summary “Gary Mosher: Physics crank who fervently asserts an alternate “theory of everything”, rejecting all evidence of special/general relativity and the double slit experiment. He is also known as “inmendham”, and alternately proposes a “destroy all life” philosophy.” Links: His theory of everything Critique His website Debunking Benatar Vegan Video Library – Anti-Natalism inmendham debates and videos for critique

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Discords on Collaboration with “Ask Yourself” Proved to be Short Lived.

Fallout afterwards if you’re interested – https://imgur.com/gallery/dGB0E “Ask Yourself: And to be fair they are factually true, they will likely have lower IQ, black women do have highest STD rate, and races are subspecies”

Good stuff, theirs plenty of other live chat vegan discords also: Darren McStravick’s Death Squad: https://discord.gg/urYRemw r/vegan: https://discord.gg/SCejk59 Vegan steam: https://discord.gg/ZrJ33CK /r/gardening: https://discord.gg/VdaQgHZ Vegans of Discord: https://discord.gg/v2BVvWb PhilosophicalVegan: https://discord.gg/R3rFfQt

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Joel Marks and Sisyphus Redeemed on Community post

Very interesting the articles I’ve found by him, thanks for that, they have a youtube channel also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snSCgvG3fbc I don’t know any other vegan nihilists on youtube except for a few existential spiritualists (Koi Fresco, Existential Vegan) and depressed fatalists (Ghost Vegan), the violentvegan wrote an angsty poem once and that’s about it aha, oh yea Vegan Gains and Unnatural vegan misusing slave morality and nihilist for fatalists. Let me know if you find any vegans talking philosophy at all and I’ll add it to me library, this is what I’ve got so far on nihilism: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/ethical-nihilism/

Oh yea totally forgot SisyphusRedeemed, the name should have reminded me, they did their thesis on the meta-ethical foundation for virtue ethics, but seems a lot of nihilists mix the two, the practical considerations of virtue and the chaos element of speculative realism. Got to catch up on this guys well articulated videos from ‘The fall of logical positivism,’ ‘Dying Without God’ and ‘Secular Humanism and Transcendent Morality.’ Someone for you to think about reaching out to for a conversation if you like their stuff anyways Eisel, here is their vegan videos replying to a guy called Anybu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvmQm1B8dxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCcluVG2ZI8

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Straight Edge and Vegan Reich on Against Video Games: The Principle of the Thing.

Never got into video games, coffee or alcohol, played a lot, a lot of cards in conversation with folks though, and like games like chess and japanese go for it’s perfect formula removing all chance, even that though you have chess websites with people playing 0+1 seconds just inanely testing their reaction speed for months without ever building up any real skill.

As an aside I found a funny history of the ‘popular’ emergence of hardline vegan straight edge out of the band VeganReich by RationalWiki: ” Hardline was a particularly strange offshoot of the vegan branch of straight edge, which tacked on all of the following simultaneously: hard green biocentric views, animal rights, pacifism, a consistent life ethic, and opposition to abortion, homosexuality, cigarette smoking, and any sexual intercourse outside of marriage. Some of them also opposed masturbation and pornography, shunned chocolate and coffee (the latter of which is also frowned on by Mormons) due to them containing caffeine, avoided sugar and tropical fruits out of opposition to Third World agricultural labor practices (which extended to chocolate and coffee), opposed modern medicine, and expressed their across-the-board militancy on everything by wearing camouflage clothing. Hardline claimed both an Abrahamic foundation and syncretic influences from Eastern spiritual disciplines, such as Zen Buddhism and Taoism. In effect, hardline synthesized the left-wing social justice politics, environmentalism, and “clean living” mainfesto of “mainline” vegan straight edge with a religious right sexual morality. Some of them took direct action against people they saw drinking, smoking, eating meat, or using drugs at hardcore shows, feeding into negative stereotypes of straight edgers.[4][7] Hardline had its origins with Sean Muttaqi[8], the frontman of a hardcore punk band called Vegan Reich[9] — a name that pretty much sums it up. Vegan Reich were occasionally suspected of being a parody of straight edge along the lines of Crucial Youth[10], but they were quite serious, and were in fact espousing views more extreme than Crucial Youth in their heyday.[11] In the ’90s, Tennessee (particularly Memphis) and Massachusetts became the centers of gravity for hardline, the former mainly due to the influence of the Tennessee-based hardline band Raid, and in 1994 Muttaqi founded the record label Uprising Records to support hardline bands. Muttaqi eventually converted to Sufism after years of interest in the Islamic faith, causing him to leave the movement while leaving his ‘zine Vanguard (the main outlet promoting hardline) in the hands of his followers. Soon after, the movement fell into a purity spiral familiar to any observer of radical politics, and began to spurn the hardcore punk and straight edge scenes for being insufficiently activist. An attempt by a hardline group to establish a commune in Hawaii fell apart when they got into a dispute over whether or not cooking food was in line with the natural order. The movement’s growing radicalization culminated in the formation of the “Hardline Central Committee” in 1998 to enforce ideological purity — a move that backfired when those who rejected its more extreme tenets realized that the movement had gone full-blown totalitarian and turned into a political cult, and abandoned hardline altogether for vegan straight edge and other, more moderate environmental and progressive activist movements. This left only a tiny core of hardliners (pun very much intended) who faded into irrelevance soon after; the Central Committee only lasted a year before it decided to vote itself out of existence. In short, they were pretty much an unintentional parody of contemporary moral guardians and cultural critics on both ends of the spectrum, albeit born from the counterculture rather than railing against it from the outside. Perhaps it’s no surprise, then, that many of the leaders of the hardline movement eventually left the hardcore punk scene. Most other straight edgers considered “hardline” to be a huge embarrassment. ”

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Vegan definition, ideology & Buddhism on Community Post and [Question, me asking you:] In what video did I first say/discuss…

Patreon’s being rubbish and losing my comment behind the broken “load more comments button,” so posting it again here:

Found the video you were looking for, going down the wildlife management playlist using Ctrl +F searching the word “definition” in the “transcript” feature, only took a minute, handy trick in future anyways.

We’re actually having a discussion about the vegan society definition of “veganism” at the moment on the philosophical vegan forum, I think shorter would be sweeter, and it’s too restrictive to utilitarian concerns at the moment, TheVeganStrategist would like it to be more open to reducitarians, and someone else – riffing off of a Wayne Hsiung article of all places – has put out an interesting article on use of the terms lifestyle, way of life and philosophy:
On the Limitations of “Veganism”

I like what you said about how ideology shouldn’t be treated as a dirty word, recognizing that we are all seeped in ideological narratives and tapping into it as a way of doing good vegan advocacy. Would be great to get a “Buddhist philosophy (in/and my life)” because I read a really interesting – if a tad Marxist eccentric – ex-Buddhist article on this also, quoted here:

“We are, as Althusser puts it, an ideological animal by nature: we produce practices invested with meaning which enable us to reproduce and transform our relations to the natural world, so that we can escape the constraints of natural history. And we do transform our ideologies all the time (metaphorically, we produce new and better modes of transportation with every passing generation); but too often we do it without conscious awareness. Our ideologies, that is, begin to reproduce themselves, and we simply go along for the ride. What must not be missed, but often is, is that we are also an animal capable of gaining conscious awareness of our ideologies.”
Samsara as the realm of ideology

More Buddhist inspired modern philosophy quotes here:
“Vegan” is a trademark worth $500,000 per year.

Eisel Mazard

Here at the 8 min. 37 sec. mark, I allude to my own “dogmatic” view of veganism, and I allude to the fact that in just one other video I discuss this issue (of how I define veganism, and how my own definition of veganism is simpler than many other people’s, and allows quite a bit more “wiggle room”, e.g., for outright killing animals in the course of wildlife mangement, etc.).

However, I now cannot find that earlier video: I don’t remember its title (and I don’t think it is included in any playlist).

I’m looking for the video in part because it might be something I have to restate (and it might not be).

The principle of the thing here is that I explain my own “conservative” definition of veganism as the belief that (1) if I cease-to-purchase animal products, it will (in some small way) make the world a better place (in terms of ecology, my own health, animal-use, etc. etc.), and (2) if more and more people likewise cease-to-purchase animal products it will, likewise, make the world a better place (ecology, human-health, animal-use, etc.).

Yes, that’s a simple point, but it comes up under many strange headings (in dialogue with “advanced”/committed/long-term animal rights activists) as I speak with many people who really do use fundamentally different definitions of veganism/A.R. (e.g., I was just reading comments from people who view the movement as defined by the act of “rescue”, etc.).

So, yes, I’m trying to track down my own (past) video… maybe someone remembers the one I’m talking about?

David Marsan

protest based diet springs to mind.

Theo Slade

Veganism is NOT a Social Justice Movement.

Published on Jan 19, 2017

0:00 Definition of Veganism

1:25 Social justice as theory

5:04 Anti-speciesism as impossible practice

9:42 Blind spots; wild animals

11:18 Incoherence as inference

Why do we have political theory in veganism at all? Isn’t veganism such a simple idea that any child can understand it? Isn’t vegan such a simple idea that it doesn’t need volumes and volumes of academic discourse on the political philosophy of how to influence the movement?

You know, political theory can get you into trouble, but it also helps get you out of trouble, it helps avoid problems before they even start.

I might take a very simple, very humble, very consumer centred definition of veganism as the most practical way to talk about veganism, especially to outsiders in most circumstances, something like this:

The central idea of veganism is if you refuse to buy animal products you’re making the world a better place, if we can convince more and more people to refuse to buy animal products then collectively, on mass, we are making the world a better place.

Of course you can get into details about in what way we’re making the world a better place, in terms of ecology, or use of resources like water or in terms of reducing animal suffering etc. Etc.

We can expand on this almost infinitely, but that’s a very simple and very limited idea, it’s very easy for people to understand and it is implementable, it’s very clear how you would put this into practice in your own life.

Now by contrast right now, right now in 2017, I would say the dominant idea of veganism in the academic discourse, in terms of the political theory of veganism is to approach it from a WILDLY different perspective.

Is to approach veganism as follows, there are people who say the fundamental problem with modern Western civilization is speciesism, you must understand speciesism as a form of oppression, therefore veganism is a social justice issue and speciesism as they use the concept entails that to treat an animal as less than a person, to treat an animal something other than a non-human person is discrimination parallel to treating black people as inferior to white people or Mongolian people as inferior to Chinese people.

This is an argument that relies on the inherent equality in some sense of animals and people. and that is claiming that any one fails to recognize and respect that equality is a bigot, is equivalent to a racist, they are a speciesist.

Now I do not think the concept of speciesism is completely worthless, I actually think in some context, in some conversations, it’s meaningful and useful, one that’s come up on this channel is when you’re challenging people; why do you think that a pig should be treated so differently from a dog? Why do you think that a bear should be treated so differently from a dog?

When we’re challenging I think divisions we have, cultural distinctions we have between different classes of animals, I think it can be useful to talk about speciesism and really to talk about the kind of cultural ideologies that we attach to humanity, to the status of particular species, why is it the people assume you know fish don’t matter and cats do, in some contexts it can be meaningful.

But by approaching veganism in this way, as a matter of fact, we’re creating many insoluble problems for ourselves, Gary Francieone likewise, he starts from the speciesist perspective and then he tries to push very hard on a false dichotomy that the whole world is only separated into persons and inanimate things – objects, persons and objects, therefore we must recognize that animals are non-human persons and therefore we must give animals a set of rights, not quite equal to human rights, but and all kinds of absurdities ensue from this. Including really a very thin-skinned and hysterical attitude towards anyone who doesn’t agree with you, and if you’ve been in veganism for a long time, you may have gotten out of touch with the fact that for ninety-nine percent of humanity the very concept of speciesism is laughable, it’s ridiculous, it’s hilarious, it’s insane, it’s actually laugh out loud funny, for a meat eater, for someone who’s not familiar with the discourse, to hear a vegan claiming that because they regard a rat or a cockroach or a pigeon as inferior to a human being, they are in effect racist, they are speciesist against those animals, okay?

And the reality is vegans can preach this, they can make this the center of their ethical and political practice, but vegans do not actually practice it, we do not actually believe in it, the vast majority of people living watching this video right now, the vast majority of people watching are living in a major city, even if you are vegan I challenge you to take the time to talk to your apartment building manager about the reality of pest control where you live.

When I was living in Victoria BC Canada, I was living in an apartment that had hollow walls, very common, it’s an apartment building, but the walls are hollow, there’s a little layer of wood and this artificial facing material, it’s a perfect home for rats and cockroaches to live in the walls, when you have hollow walls like that.

In Canada any animals that can move into the building, will move in, rats, cockroaches, bedbugs. Currently I’m living in a solid concrete building, very different situation, I remember thinking I was just lucky and that it was just a matter of time before that building had rats cockroaches and bedbugs infesting it. And actually when I moved out, my last couple of days there, you know when you move out of an apartment you have to meet up with the building manager a few times, we were discussing these things and he mentioned to me they had a pest control expert coming in every week, they had someone setting traps for mice and rats, spraying chemicals, not just chemicals to kill insects but to detect if you’ve got an infestation, you know to detect the presence of cockroaches and bedbugs and that kind of thing, they were paying a regular fee to have a professional company of exterminators come in like clockwork on a regular basis and that’s why I never saw any of those animals.

The reality is my rent money is going to kill animals like rats, the reality is every time you buy bread you are paying money for that wheat farmer to kill rats, in Canada rats and groundhogs, many, many other animals.

In practice we do not believe in equal rights for all animals, we do not believe in this particular paradigm of speciesism and none of us could live by this definition, by this political theory if we wanted to, when I lived in Taiwan, yes pious vegan that I am, I personally can try to avoid killing cockroaches. Taiwan I have been told has the world’s greatest climate for cockroaches, cockroaches really flourished there. When a particular cockroach comes into my house I can take the time to take a porcelain cup and trap the cockroach and put it outside with the cup, I can do that, yes and I can pat myself on the back and say that I’m morally superior to someone else who doesn’t take that time.

Guess what when I was in Taiwan, every single day I benefited from the fact that the city government, the local government was going out and putting poison in the storm drains, to see this poison was remarkable, I think it had dry ice as part of that, it was crackling and emitting fumes they would put really serious pesticides in the storm drains all over the city, you know the government is actively spraying and killing cockroaches all the time, so that my house is not overrun with cockroaches, so the whole neighborhood is not over overrun, and as a vegan I’m benefiting from that, okay bed bugs are the ultimate example, there’s no way to negotiate, if you are vegan and you lived in an apartment building with a bedbug infestation, I’d love to see you live up to this principle.

Okay it matters, why would you embrace a political theory, a political philosophy that first of all makes vegan sound ridiculous to outsiders, there’s no advantage in that, second of all makes vegans appear to be hypocrites, to their fault vegans, gives us a set of principles we can’t live by and thirdly creates more problems than it solves, ultimately what is philosophy? To me philosophy is a problem-solving method and then over time with the discipline of philosophy, of collecting together and studying examining those problem-solving methods, learning from the contrast and comparison between problems on the methods, ultimately there’s no point having political philosophy at all if it’s not going to solve some problem.

And I do see tremendous unbelievable blind spots in this approach, this speciesism first approach, where the first principle is anti-speciesism and then we approach mechanism.

Wild bears in the forest are not property, wild bears are not going to be liberated by this switch in focus from regarding animals as property, to regarding animals as in some sense equal, it’s irrelevant, this approach really you can see it’s based on the status of domesticated house pets like dogs and cats. Saying dogs and cats, you’ll be elevated to have these other rights and it neither applies in a coherent way to the status of animals in the wild, nor to animals that we regard as vermin like rats.

So on the level of rhetoric, it seems to me you’re making tremendous sacrifices as a vegan by embracing this model and what do you get, what is the benefit of this model, the benefit clearly is the use of this term social justice, I’ve heard Francieone say this, I’ve seen other books, other authors playing this game lately.

For some reason, some vegans, including Francione, are very much afraid of anyone who does not regard veganism as a social justice movement, whatever that means, it’s a painfully vague phrase, if you don’t regard it as a matter of social justice, then you’ll merely be a reducitarian, you’ll merely try to reduce, meliorate the situation with the slaughterhouse industry, you won’t try to abolish it absolutely.

Now I really don’t know, to me that’s an illogical and incoherent leap of inference.

 

Eisel Mazard

Wow… thank you… you can see why I had trouble finding it (the title does not jog my memory, as to the video containing this aspect, concerning the definition of veganism itself).

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Existentialism and Stoicism on Happiness, obduracy and the meaning of life.

Yep, the meaning of life in UNDER 15 MINUTES.

Seth Meyers
Hey man look at you! Weeks of uninterrupted (surmise) time w your daughter. I’ve been following you long enough to know how big a deal this is and at least something of what it took to get here. Plus you’re there w someone you love. . Damn son things have improved a lot in your life. So good that you recognize it! Lots of people don’t. I think it’s also worth reflecting on how absolutely sure you are that you wouldn’t get things to this state this quickly you had all sorts of ideas about which way the French legal system is going to take you and absolutely you were justified in a bit of pessimism but wow things work out better than expected quicker than expected so for me I’d take away something of this experience the next time things look super dark anyway wow so happy for you definitely a little optimism to my day!

Eisel Mazard
You’re correct about the short-term situation: it’s astoundingly wonderful. However, there are long-term problems: legally, I’m still not divorced (I JUST PROVED THAT I’M ALIVE (not dead), etc.) and I’m still looking at a bleak array of education-and-career options, etc. etc. —but yeah, short term, wonderful situation. And while my job in Dehong (as a university teacher, etc.) is peculiar, it is a real job, and I have a real home, as well as a real girlfriend and (now) a real relationship with my daughter.

Theo Slade
Yes and even though you play the role of an absurd hero in the nihilist sense swooping in and proving you’re alive to the state (oh brother where art thou comes to mind aha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16-AK3wQaTQ) in the stoic sense, you express very well the limits of your own control and how not many people have what you get to enjoy, so obsessing over some of the stuff out of your control would more likely jeopardize what you already have. Debating on the philosophicalvegan forum atm to have the variety of ethics people draw upon in their life included in the future wiki, not just the narrow consequentialist ones, if you have anything to offer would be great to read: Virtue Ethics is (existentially) it’s own discipline: https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3365

Ethical Nihilism / Moral Skepticism / Existentialism / Speculative Realism… ask away! https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3358

The wiki address https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3340&hilit=wiki

Theo Slade
Forgot to say really powerful stuff, my go to person expressing well in a really simplified form the existential meaning one can find in life was Cori Wong on movement in choices and responsibility – https://youtu.be/CIxY17D123o?t=7m6s – but can’t beat your video for authenticity in bringing to bare your gritty bare bones experience

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Nuclear Weapons parallel to Game of Thrones on Episode 7.2 was AWFUL! (Game of Thrones) (ASOIAF)

40 minutes solid (a lot of “book vs. show” discussion).

Belinda
I keep wondering if dragons are an allegory for nuclear weapons. Just throwing that out there.

Theo Slade
Definitely analogous – Game of Thrones: Why Dragons Halt Progress Nerdwriter1 – https://youtu.be/PDdKmx0PW7s

Belinda
Ah, thanks! Good to know I’m not crazy

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Best outcome funding for domesticated pet animals? on Captive Animals ARE NOT Companion Animals (Unnatural Vegan is NOT Vegan)

Captivity is not companionship.

Genevieve Jackson
I would probably choose death than a lifetime of prison.

MacGregor Malloy
Interesting discussion. Your reference to the argument that captivity is better than death has always been a (possible) point of contention between my own views on pet ownership and yours. I believe that this argument is similar to the argument that Gary Francione advances for adopting dogs and holding them captive (he refers to them as “refugees”), despite his commitment to abolitionism. I know he recognizes the added difficulty for cats but I haven’t paid enough attention to what he has to say about that.

It doesn’t seem possible to answer the question about whether a life of domestication, invasive sterilization and captivity is better or worse than death. The problem of anthropomorphization seems intractable. I am not entirely convinced that adopting a dog, for example, that is facing imminent death, and feeding it a vegan diet of course, is wrong compared to letting it die. Cats seem like a clearer example given their carnivorous nature. I consider myself lucky to have found myself without any cat captives at the time of coming to this conclusion, because I have no idea how I would resolve that problem amicably. My care for their “well being” would probably leave me admitting my own moral failings while continuing to hold them captive, paying humans to kill various creatures to feed to them. I am curious as to how your girlfriend (sorry I do not know her name) managed to deal with that problem.

Eisel Mazard

(1) Re: “It doesn’t seem possible to answer the question about whether a life of domestication, invasive sterilization and captivity is better or worse than death.” Hey, step one is ASKING THE QUESTION. When I opened this line of discussion on Youtube, the majority of vegans were shocked and horrified: a lot of people had NEVER thought about it before. Frankly, I think that just asking the question (openly) will lead to a different aesthetic and moral quality for the movement. Very strange comparison: just asking the question, “Why do bank-machines in Canada not have any native language (Cree, Mohawk, etc.)?” leads to a sort of change in the aesthetic and moral quality of the political discourse about language education (i.e., it ain’t the French or the Chinese who are being oppressed here).

(2) Yep… the girlfriend’s cats were, in fact, the girlfriend’s ex-boyfriend’s cats… and that’s where they remain.

Alena
Eisel, what do you think about the new Vegan flag? I think it’s a positive step towards politicizing veganism. I appreciate it that someone took the time and effort to create a flag at all. I got a comment on Instagram: ” The creator of the flag is Israeli. So to have a flag that bears the two colors of Israel’s flag doesn’t seem coincidental. Besides, this movement is for the animal, it is not about us. Having a flag makes it all about us and further devides us from other potential converts to veganism.” I disagree with this comment. I’m curious what do You think about the flag. Some say vegans don’t need a flag and that it’s just for the sake of making money on merchandise. They say thr flag will further devide the vegans. We are already very diverse and devided, maybe a flag can help to unite all of us in a way, to be a symbol we all can identify with..

Alena
An article from Ecorazzi critisizing the flag http://www.ecorazzi.com/2017/07/13/why-i-wont-be-waving-a-vegan-flag/

Eisel Mazard
I don’t see any problem with people designing a flag, HOWEVER, it has quite a few logos to compete with… and the graphically-simple nature of the flag makes it unlikely to be used on food-packaging… in general, someone who didn’t already know it was a vegan flag would not be able to guess its significance. And, yes, the Latin letter “V” has SOME connection to veganism, but China, India and even Israel have words for the concept not linked to the letter “V”. I don’t think the particular design of the flag is likely to be a big success… but maybe I’ll be wrong. I’ve seen informal flags for animal rights groups representing animals being released from cages that worked better. I can imagine a simple graphic of a bird being let out of a cage that might work, etc.

Alena
Thanks for the reply. That’s a good point about Lattin letter V and other world languages.

Theo Slade
What would you do if you were the head of PETA say and a big donor left 10 million to you in their will on the condition that you did something practical towards tackling the problem of pet animal suffering?

What share would go into animal sanctuary/ domestic animal safari parks, where you helped them from starving and let people visit for a fee towards rewilding? How much on free tubular litigation procedures?

Just curious, I think there’s a good case to be made for adopting plenty of dogs and cats from over-populated, low demand, no kill shelters if you live deep in the countryside where they can roam and you don’t have to worry about them being run over, every farm and new age traveler site I ever knew had dogs and cats roaming freely.

What do you think of tribes that keep animals as family and would never eat anyone they adopt even after they let them back into the forest?

Penan relationship to animals https://youtu.be/ODG42xzqxUU

Awa Amazon tribe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYLMhHzKocE

Are Humans the Only Animals That Keep Pets? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201006/are-humans-the-only-animals-keep-pets

The guy being quoted by UV in this video from the philosophicalvegan forum also wrote this:

On Adoption/Rescue:

“Adopting pets probably does not qualify as effective altruism due to the large cost and small impact.

It’s also not entirely clear whether adoption is good for a cat or not (even among consequentialists, this is debated). The ideal case seems to be rescuing two female cats from no kill shelters which are fed vegan (let meat eaters adopt the male cats and feed them the meat they may need to avoid urinary issues) kept indoors to prevent them from killing animals or being harmed themselves, and with enrichment like a cat patio or other activities. Yet we do not know what extent of boredom, confinement, or isolation over a lifetime make it better to have been euthanized. Be mindful that adopting an animal and making it miserable is probably worse than not adopting at all and keep in mind the difficulties involved in providing for the animal before making that commitment.”

On Donation/ other Activism:

“With respect to donation and volunteering, a disproportionate amount of current effort and money is devoted to pet rescue, so in terms of contributions to any efforts (even more effective ones like TNR) the point of diminishing returns is probably reached much sooner than with funding efforts to reduce farmed animal suffering.”

https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3292&start=10

Would be interested to know how far your approach differs. I know you would disagree with them thinking cats should be kept indoors, I’m torn on that because of cats being glutenous hunters, killing for fun and basically an invasive species that are too good for their environment, unlike the wildcat they share a common ancestor with which consumes all its food and has a working niche that is threatened by feral cats, so probably wouldn’t get a cat from a shelter, but might adopt the burden of checking on a friends cat if they had to move house to the city so the cat could keep it’s environment rather than have to be put down.

Eisel Mazard
I’m really tempted to give the answer that Durianrider prepared everyone for: “I’d spend it all on hookers and fried chicken from K.F.C.!” —presumably the hookers would not actually be provided by K.F.C., but for ten million dollars, maybe you could even get a branch of K.F.C. to go vegan (…i.e., it would be even easier to get them to act as a brothel, I imagine). Ahem. But all joking aside…

…I think the reality (in 2017) is the economic opposite: groups run shelters as their major source of funding/donation, and then use some small percentage of the funds raised (primarily FOR the shelter) to take on other projects (such as public education). Animal shelters are popular with donors —including meat-eating donors. So far as I know, P.C.R.M. does not operate shelters, so there’s an exception, but, e.g., “Go Vegan World” started as a (highly affluent?) animal shelter in Ireland —and then built their empire (so to speak) on the relations with donors that the shelter created (they seem to have multi-million dollar advertising budgets now… but I have never seen an actual budget, nor an actual figure for total cost per annum, etc.).

Theo Slade
I also agree it’s true of the majority of shelter organisations, PETA are even pretty blatant about killing numbers and philosophy:

Companion Animal Frequently Asked Questions https://www.peta.org/issues/companion-animal-issues/companion-animals-faq/

Running their shelters on the cheapest budgets to tide some of the most adoptable pets over for maximum a few weeks till they get the lethal injection, Because they don’t think advertising pets up for adoption is a good use of funds.

PETA Euthanized A Lot Of Animals At Its Shelter In 2014, And No-Kill Advocates Are Not Happy About It: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/05/pets-shelter-euthanization-rate_n_6612490.html

Even though individual volunteers/activists are willing to spend a lot of time networking to find rescue animals homes for no to little money. The same is not true of funding for farm sanctuaries sadly, no will legacies that go along with cute pets.

VEGAN HEN PARTY!! // EP25 | Building a chicken house @ The Farm Animal Sanctuary // #30vids: https://youtu.be/8al6E1fAEd8?t=9m49s

I wish there was a more equal distribution of funds, as they are all as you say captive animals not able to pursue their own social relationships, horses starving in Ireland during recession, though I wouldn’t want more to be bred, a carrier capacity of caring homes play a part in improving the well being of cats and dogs already ‘institutionalized.’

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Cicero and virtue ethics on [Patreon Exclusive:] Veganism: Socratic Method is Dead.

This is a reply to a Patreon supporter JUST LIKE YOU!!!!

Emile Bontes
Socratic method is most certainly Not Dead! A great example of it being used properly is the conversations Joey Carbstrong has with non-vegans. Check out his latest video where he has a very positive and productive (Socratic) conversation with a family of four non-vegans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gy5A_JslR8 When I was talking about insincere people I was talking about people that for instance Vegan Gains has debated recently and who all have an obvious resistance towards veganism from the start and who are all insincere and inconsistent about their reasoning and intentions. I could be completely wrong, but I don’t think it would be very productive to use Socratic method in those conversations. I agree that showing people who you are, why you are this way and feel the way you do, and leading by example can be more productive when dealing with, for instance, friends and family because you’re not coming off as judgmental and forcing this way. But I guess it all just depends on the situation and who you’re talking to that determines if it’s more productive to use Socratic method, fact-based logical reasoning, expressions your personal emotions and convictions, or a combination of these.

Eisel Mazard
I have definitely seen at least one video in which I’d say Joey Carbstrong was indeed using Socratic method, in the strictest sense of the term, i.e., he was saying, in effect, “Well, I don’t know what’s wrong or right… you can tell me why that is…”, etc.

Emile Bontes
Well, either way Joey’s doing a great job edifying the ignorant in whichever way that’s required.

Theo Slade
Page 34-35 of ‘Therapy and Desire; Theory and Practice in Hellenistic Ethics’ could be of some help here:

. . .Cicero said that deductive argument does little to engage the ordinary hearer, or to probe into and alter the hearer’s life. The philosopher who records and systematizes ordinary beliefs can use familiar dialectical arguments. She can elicit the ordinary beliefs by calm questioning and then do whatever dialectical maneuvering needs to be done to achieve consistency. Medical philosophy cannot take this course. . . For its task requires delving deep into the patient’s psychology and, ultimately, challenging it and changing it. Calm dialectic does not probe deep enough to elicit hidden fears, frustrations, angers, attachments. If confusions are rooted deeply enough, it will not find them.

Thus medical philosophy, while committed to logical reasoning, and to marks of good reasoning such as clarity, consistency, rigor, and breadth of scope, will often need to search for techniques that are more complicated and indirect, more psychologically engaging, than those of conventional deductive or dialectical argument. [27] It must find ways to delve into the pupil’s inner world, using gripping examples, techniques of narrative, appeals to memory and imagination-all in the service of bringing the pupil’s whole life in to the investigative process.

Imagine, for example, how workers from the rural development authority would need to speak to the woman in rural India who says she does not want more education, if they want her to take the idea seriously and care about what they have to say. Clearly, a one-shot logical argument would do nothing to engage her; such a procedure would only reinforce her conviction that education has nothing to do with her. Nor would the exchange get very far if the development workers sat down with her like Aristotle in his schoolroom and asked her a number of calm and intellectual questions about what she thinks and says. But suppose, instead, they spent a long time with her , sharing her way of life and entering into it. Suppose, during this time, they vividly set before her stories of ways in which the lives of women in other parts of the world have been transformed by education of various types- all the while eliciting, from careful listening over a long period of time, in an atmosphere of trust that they would need to work hard to develop, a rich sense of what she has experienced, whom she takes herself to be, what at a deeper level she believes about her own capacities and their actualization. If they did all this, and did it with the requisite sensitivity, imagination, responsiveness, and open-mindedness, they might over time discover that she does indeed experience some frustration and anger in connection with her limited role; and she might be able to recognize and to articulate wishes and aspirations for herself that she could not have articulated to Aristotle in the classroom. In short, through narrative , memory, and friendly conversation, a more complicated view of the good might begin to emerge. In short, what philosophy needs, practiced in the medical way, is an account of complex human interactions of a philosophical kind. And for this it needs to think about the uses of the imagination, about narrative, about community, about friendship, about the rhetorical and literary forms in which an argument may be effectively housed. Each Hellenistic school does this in its own way. But all agree that philosophy is a complex form of life with complex arts of speech and writing.

[27] For a contemporary argument along similar lines, see Charles Taylor (1993 ).

Eisel Mazard
I do not see Cicero quoted much anymore… I also cannot remember ever reading an entire book by Cicero… should probably add to my “to do” list.

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Trademarks, the resource library and Buddhism on “Vegan” is a trademark worth $500,000 per year.

Theo Slade

Heya, it’s an interesting subject so cleaned up the auto transcript into essay form:

As I mentioned in a few videos recently, I am the sort of guy who reads annual financial reports from major vegan foundations and institutions because I’m trying to learn from their experience.

I’m trying to learn from what they’re doing right and what they’re doing wrong.

And I was surprised when I found in the pages of the Vegan Society’s Annual Report, they claim that the word vegan is their trademark.

Not only do they have the word trademarked, they are successfully using this trademark to generate quite a lot of money, you can see the exact amount of money in British pounds on screen, it works out to be more than half a million U.S. dollars per year.

That’s a surprise, I think for anyone who conceives of veganism as a political movement, as an ideology, or even as a diet, you’re shocked to find out that the word vegan is held as a trademark. If it’s going to be held as a trademark, I’m happy to learn that the vegan society owns it as a trademark and it’s not owned by some other for-profit company or entity or corporation, that’d be even stranger.

But nevertheless, I can’t say I’m really comfortable with the idea of anyone having a trademark on the word vegan, I don’t think anyone can be comfortable with seeing that there’s a trademark on their own political ideology.

And I have over the years seen some products avoid using the word vegan, they use these other terms like plant-based, or they just have a whole other sentence on the package saying it “does not contain any animal products or any animal derived products.”

It never occurred to me that some of those products might be avoiding the use of the word ‘vegan,’ because it was trademarked or because there’d be an expectation for them to actually pay money to a foundation or agency, to be able to use the word.

Now I don’t have any reason to think that the vegan society is abusing their power in holding this trademark, I’d be very interested even to know if anyone wants to email me if they’ve heard something or read something about what the implications of this are for companies who are using the word vegan.

I just feel that we already have too much of a problem, with individuals and political movements avoiding the word vegan. It’d be a much longer video if I got into that, but I’ve seen that, I’ve even seen formal political movements within Canada that said no, they didn’t want to use the word vegan, that we’re using these other complex terms about animal rights and ecology and what-have-you. And I really do like the simplicity and directness and honesty of the word vegan, I like its simplicity in a reference to a diet and ethics and ecology and as a political heading. I don’t want to stop using the word vegan because someone, somewhere, holds a trademark, has the copyright, has the exclusive rights to determine what isn’t vegan.

I felt as though this was a word that all of us owned, and all of us participated in and that all of us were working towards. You know starting out for ourselves with veganism met in our own lives and yeah it comes as a bit of a shock, it is fundamentally a little bit weird to find out that no, it’s a trademark, even if it’s the vegan society themselves they hold that trademark and that it’s a trademark that is being milked for half a million dollars a year.

____

A philosopher I like trademarked their video series ‘Think for a change’

https://coriwong.com/my-philifesophy/

And I had a knee jerk reaction of distaste when I read it aha, though I’m sure they had perfectly valid reasons, of being a struggling writer trying to make a buck. I’m for copy-left creative commons which basically means use and share liberally as long as no profit is being made unfairly claiming an other’s work.

Eisel Mazard

Thanks, I can copy-and-paste this into the “transcript” function of Youtube.

Theo Slade

Glad I could help, I’m getting quite fast at doing these now with find and replace tool in word, anymore you’d like me to do? Also if you have any suggestions as to your most important videos, and playlists, for the wiki/resource library I’m building that I wrote about in the community tab, that would be cool too. Would just like to promote more vegan voices and discussion. Channel Preview: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/a-bas-le-ciel/ and Catalogue: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/eisel-mazard/

Eisel Mazard

Henh! Interesting website! My work on Buddhism spun off some websites (gathering/distributing the materials) but this is the first website of its kind that I’ve seen linked to my work on veganism.

Theo Slade

Yeah I’m sorry I missed the discussion on those early Buddhist videos, such as ‘Brand New Ancient Buddhist Philosophy.’ As I’m also interested in understanding and recapturing an existential virtue ethics that derived from particular places and times in culture without glamorizing it, and the secular turn like you said that also took place within Christianity with Jefferson.

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Indigenous veganism on The Girlfriend: how much of our relationship is ABOUT veganism?

 

Theo Slade

Aww that cuteness is infectious. Your talking about the transparency of animal carcasses reminded me of a video I watched on indigenous conceptions of veganism, Margaret Robinson talking about Mi’kmaq legends and living in the china town area in a small québécois city where I guess housing was cheap so large indigenous and immigrant populations overlapped. Encase you’re interested anyways (sound is really poor for the first 2 mins but then it’s really clear) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahD6uz1mYJA

 

 

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Vegan video resource library on Community Post

Hey Eisel and Eisel’s long-term listeners and bingewatchers, I’m creating a vegan video resource library and so cataloguing vegan youtubers work into subject specific categories, before going on to group together that same type of content from diverse youtubers like ‘What I eat in a day’ or ‘Ethics’ onto one page for easy accessibility. In the process of listing I can help point out videos that don’t belong to any playlists on the users channel for easy updating, which I’ve been told has been helpful, anyways I’ve almost finished organizing a list of all your videos which you can check out here: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/eisel-mazard/ Which was a mammoth slog, but you get the idea, if you or any fans of yours who have a better knowledge of your work want to check the list over and have any tips that’d be great. And even if you want to help because you can easily identify from title names what videos belong to what categories, that would be fab too, just need to copy into a word document and get organizing, then link me back in a google doc or wordpress link. Here’s a preview to your channel: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/a-bas-le-ciel/

and a page expanding on your most viewed videos: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/eisel-most-viewed/

and conversations you’ve had with other youtubers: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/eisel-conversations/ The idea is for this all to be used in future towards a text resource library/ wiki on the best advocacy/critique out there on various vegan subjects to encourage dialogue about what goals we share in common. Anyone wants to let me know what they think, or offer advice or help would be more than welcome.

Hey Eisel and Eisel’s long-term listeners and bingewatchers, I’m creating a vegan video resource library and so cataloguing vegan youtubers work into subject specific categories, before going on to group together that same type of content from diverse youtubers like ‘What I eat in a day’ or ‘Ethics’ onto one page for easy accessibility. In the process of listing I can help point out videos that don’t belong to any playlists on the users channel for easy updating, which I’ve been told has been helpful, anyways I’ve almost finished organizing a list of all your videos which you can check out here: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/eisel-mazard/ Which was a mammoth slog, but you get the idea, if you or any fans of yours who have a better knowledge of your work want to check the list over and have any tips that’d be great. And even if you want to help because you can easily identify from title names what videos belong to what categories, that would be fab too, just need to copy into a word document and get organizing, then link me back in a google doc or wordpress link. Here’s a preview to your channel: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/a-bas-le-ciel/

and a page expanding on your most viewed videos: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/eisel-most-viewed/

and conversations you’ve had with other youtubers: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/eisel-conversations/ The idea is for this all to be used in future towards a text resource library/ wiki on the best advocacy/critique out there on various vegan subjects to encourage dialogue about what goals we share in common. Anyone wants to let me know what they think, or offer advice or help would be more than welcome.

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South East Asian Studies on Community Post

Just watched an amazing documentary on the African troops that fought in Burma in WW2, and the local people that risked their lives to shelter them, this is the heart warming moment they tracked down one of the families an African soldier spoke of: https://youtu.be/BREOezfAJSU?t=41m12s Thought you’d like it because of your interest in South-East Asian culture and history. Apparently a 100,000 Africans served in Burma, and 8 out of 10 of the soldiers who fought for the British in Burma were conscripted from the colonies, with around 100 languages between them. http://www.aljazeera.com/photo_galleries/programmes/2011829151520656815.html

Just watched an amazing documentary on the African troops that fought in Burma in WW2, and the local people that risked their lives to shelter them, this is the heart warming moment they tracked down one of the families an African soldier spoke of: https://youtu.be/BREOezfAJSU?t=41m12s Thought you’d like it because of your interest in South-East Asian culture and history. Apparently a 100,000 Africans served in Burma, and 8 out of 10 of the soldiers who fought for the British in Burma were conscripted from the colonies, with around 100 languages between them. http://www.aljazeera.com/photo_galleries/programmes/2011829151520656815.html

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ModVegan

New Camera

Yay, so clear! Really happy for you!

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Latin American, war and ethnography on Hangout

Ok, I think I’ll have to cut the hangout short, since nobody is here and I have plans for Canada day. I hope you’re all well, and I’m sorry if any of you showed up later. Have a great day, and if you’d like to reschedule for another day, let me know. As always, please feel free to contact me with your comments and questions. Take care!

Ok, I think I’ll have to cut the hangout short, since nobody is here and I have plans for Canada day. I hope you’re all well, and I’m sorry if any of you showed up later. Have a great day, and if you’d like to reschedule for another day, let me know. As always, please feel free to contact me with your comments and questions. Take care!

Theo Slade

Heya, genuinely sorry I missed this, but you provide so much great free content anyways so I don’t feel bad. Would be interested to hear more about your studies in Colombia, whether you’re still following events in the news from there with the referendum, peace process and cocaine production and demand, like Bolivia’s attempt to legalize small holdings growing cacao on a pro-indigenous rights ticket. I posted a while ago to the forum about a type of immersive political ethnography study that produced really interesting data, if folk psychology of the type that is controversial among hard scientists. From Confusion to Common Sense: Using Political Ethnography to Understand Social Mobilization in the Brazilian Northeast https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3202 I remember a chapter on the ethical implications of collecting data during a polarizing civil-war in Colombia so will format that and put it out soon. Just some thoughts encase they spark your interest, but you do you

ModVegan

Hi Theo! I’m sorry you missed it, but I hope you’ll be able to join in next time. I still follow events in Colombia, but not as closely as I did in the past. I’m quite optimistic about the future of the country if the guerrilla can be reintegrated into society in a positive way.

ModVegan

I just realized I can’t make paragraphs on the desktop I read the article you posted on the Philosophical Vegans forum – very interesting! I’m always fascinated with how some people are affected so differently by traumatic experiences (especially wars, gang violence, etc.). My husband has horrible memories of the 80s and 90s in Colombia, and my research was quite upsetting to him (especially since I reached conclusions he didn’t particularly like). On the other hand, his brothers have completely different memories of the same period. I’d be interesting the chapter on one of Colombia’s civil wars (they’ve had a few) – perhaps it was on La Violencia? Welcome to the Patreon group, btw, Theo, and I’m so glad you are here!

Theo Slade

Happy to be here Yeah will definitely try to make the next one. I am too about Colombia, it really did seem like the FARC were just waiting to be able to stand down whilst keeping their pride intact, they were so out-gunned and with new technology like drone warfare. I guess we should know by now referendums always swing to the popular right, but it was amazing to me the lust for total vengeance on behalf of those furthest from the fighting and the conditions that lead to war. War is just that traumatizing and so many horrendous narratives, it’s so hard to see through the fog, I’m sorry your husband had to live through that. When I looked back I misremembered, the other paper was based on experiences in El Salvador, though it’s focus isn’t an in depth timeline of the country’s history, I think, it’s about the ethical dilemmas when studying war, and the narratives people spin to try and get you to be a propagandist for their cause that can apply anywhere. I know a little from Rushdie’s popular book The Jaguar’s Smile when he visited Nicaragua, but El Salvador could be said to be still suffering one of the worst consequences of the Junta Era, and so many untold stories and covered up answers too. Anyways hot off the press: The Ethical Challenges of Field Research in Conflict Zones https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=32180 p.s. I figured out holding ‘shift’ + ‘enter’ prevents it from posting when you want to make paragraphs.

ModVegan

Thanks for the tip! Very true re: El Salvador. Central America has long had a really difficult time, unfortunately. Colombia is much safer these days, mostly because the more savvy Colombian ‘businessmen’ moved operations to Mexico the day after NAFTA went through.

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Vegan video resource library on Community Post

Heya ModVegan, just creating a meta-archive of vegan youtube channels educational resources and helping people out with their playlists in the process
activistjourneys.wordpress.com/m…

On the left of the table are some videos that don’t belong to any playlists on your channel at the moment, there might not have been a playlist to put them in at the time or you left them out intentionally in which case don’t mind this post, but here you go anyways, on the right are suggestions for playlists to put them into, and at the bottom after the table in finished form.

Once I’ve collected enough lists from different youtube channels the idea is to group together the same type of content like ‘What I eat in a day’ or ‘Ethics’ on one page to give people many channel options for diverse youtubers tackling similar issues.

ModVegan

Thank you so much, Theo! I can’t tell you how much I appreciate all of your hard work! You’ve really put together an amazing resource. I followed almost all of your suggestions Have a wonderful day!

Theo Slade

So glad it was helpful, best wishes to you too

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Unnatural Vegan

Heya, really great video bringing clarity to freeganism and I’m sure it’ll be so appreciated by Edwin and those wanting to try veganism but put off by the puritan fanatics.

My last message to him was “Totally back you up! We send out a survey asking if people support meat grown in a lab + meat that would otherwise go in the trash as moral to test rationality”

Do you think you’d be able to share the survey at the end of your video with a voice over or a link to it in the description? I’ve put it into video format to make it easy for you to include if you think it’s worth doing:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10clmxZe7zd_F0sOg9c3D-xqmRT00wiUe

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Theo Slade

Forgot to tell you what’s in the video, it’s long and includes different speeds so you can clip it down to your preference:

Picture of the top of Freeganism page
Video of Freeganism page at 1 speed scroll down
Video of Freeganism page at 2 speed scroll down
Picture of the top of Vegan YouTubers page
Video of Vegan YouTubers page at 1 speed scroll down
Video of Vegan YouTubers page at 2 speed scroll down

http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Vegan_YouTubers

Survey page link below, but could find them if YouTubers commented below your video also: https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=35470

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Unnatural Vegan

Put the survey link in a pinned comment and in the description.

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Theo Slade

Happy days, much appreciated. Sorry that I got confused, I did think your vid was going to cover more freegan practices which you asked about in your last freegan video, that the wiki would have been a good source on, but I like the angle you went with it, about usefulness of terms. I’m going to interview a friend on camera soon who works at Real Junk Food Doncaster showing round the centre, we’ll cover all the media representations of freeganism and where we see hope moving forwards. He’s worked with me at Sheffield Abundance setting up urban apple tree gathering days and in Calais cooking for refugees from rescued food, so will put it all on the PhilsophicalVegan youtube channel when it’s made: https://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Philosophical_Vegan_YouTube_Channel#5._Freeganism_interview

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Unnatural Vegan

Nice, looking forward to it!

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Freeganism on When vegans eat meat (freeganism, Edwins Generation)

Really sad story, some people feel so threatened by not wanting to understand friends living different ethical choices and will cross a bunch of boundaries into being a shitty person to try and get you to be more like them without even thinking twice.

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Heya, would you prefer people just never mention the amount of wasted perfectly edible food? There is nothing wrong with asking to arrange a time to pick up food about to be thrown away or taking pristine packaged food in double wrapped trashbags out the dumpster. Poorly managed and legislated production, distribution and consumer use is an environmental catastrophe driving climate change: https://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism

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Because it’s part of what being an ethical vegan can mean for some, it is even more moral than veganism for its carbon negative effect. Granted not everyone can do it, but it encompasses a lot of practices that bring attention to an environmentally damaging industry that simple dietary vegans want to stop too.

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The only good reason to be consistently vegan is ethics, promoting consistent ethics means acknowledging all that encompasses, for the same reason we can be concerned about the wastefulness to our planet of bringing animals into our world only to suffer for taste, we can offset some of that by deciding to nourish ourselves on the waste that failed to sell commercially, or give it to carnivorous cats, it’s a win for veganism and brings attention to a broken system.

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Really great video bringing clarity to freeganism! Opening the door back up to so many that were turned off by the puritan rhetoric. Other great vegan YouTubers who practice freeganism: • Shelbizleee https://www.youtube.com/user/Shelbizleee • Carb Up and Carpe Diem! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP18TDSuSjamG1cyvKgijTQ • EcoPeaceful https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4ix7ht1GXEa9WjAx17Li_w Also check out the Philosophical Vegan Wiki page on Freeganism: https://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism Tons of great information catalogued you can see just from the Table of Contents: 1 Production Reform •1.1 Products to support •1.2 Edible Gardening •1.3 Foraging •1.4 Gleaning •1.5 Pick your own farms 2 Distribution Reform •2.1 Field to street mass distribution movement 3 Consumer Reform & stopgaps •3.1 Reducing supermarket waste •3.2 Reducing Household waste •3.2.1 Waste that we can’t avoid •3.2.1.1 Hot Composting •3.2.1.2 Bokashi Fermentation •3.2.1.3 Virmiculture •3.3 Freecycling •3.4 Talking to Food sellers •3.5 Dumpster Diving •3.5.1 Health & Safety •3.5.2 The Dumpster Diving Code •3.5.2.1 Rule 1: Dumpster discretely •3.5.2.2 Rule 2: Leave things better than how you found them •3.5.2.3 Rule 3: Check the legal status in your country •3.5.3 What can you find while dumpster diving? •3.5.4 What gear do you need to dumpster dive? •3.5.5 The Best Places to Dumpster Dive •3.5.6 When Should you go Diving? •3.5.7 How to Pick Good Dumpster Food •3.5.8 Labels •3.5.9 Resources •3.5.10 Stigma •3.6 Table surfing •3.7 Roadkill •3.7.1 Preperation •3.7.2 Nutritional value 4 Criticism •4.1 Theft •4.2 Working Less 5 Activism •5.1 Effective Activism •5.2 Virtue Activism •5.2.1 Networking •5.2.2 Street food •5.2.3 Pay as you feel Shops, Cafes and Restaurants •5.2.4 Advocacy •5.3 Policy •5.3.1 Impacts

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YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY!!!

Do you think you’ll be referencing the wiki? I’ll conscript Brim and others to get it up to par if so, and any info you need sourcing just ask 🙂

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Freeganism on Upcoming videos

Heya, opportunity to back a smaller channel up on their rational freeganism: I’m Vegan, But I’ll Eat Meat https://youtu.be/KKjBlW4yaxg Chance to clarify what the popular use of the term freeganism is today, mostly referring to supermarket dumpster divers right, but whole raft of urban fruit gathering, edible gardening to advertising items online you were going to throw away anyway in a house clearance for free. Here’s my comment to him: ” I understand the hesitation with the term freegan being historically rooted in a squatting, shoplifting subculture, I just want to let you know it’s taken on a different much broader use since then to mean anything from urban gardening, foraging, freecycling, gleaning and talking to food sellers and restaurants to arrange a time to pick up their left over food that can’t be sold. It doesn’t have to replace veganism as a term you call yourself, it’s just like saying I’m doing something freegan today as freegan is a portmanteau of free + vegan, you can also think of your practice as freegan-lite 🙂 There’s a lot of great charities that are trying to help change the production and distribution chain so that farmers don’t have to waste crops, supermarkets change their shelving practices and householders food lasts longer. Many activists I know mapping streets for urban apple trees, organizing street kitchens with wonky veg pulled from farmers fields and sharing fermenting recipes l know call their actions part of a vegan-freegan movement so I wouldn’t feel any shame in using the term freegan 🙂 Here’s some links: Unnatural Vegan’s Food Waste & Freeganism (Part 2: What is a freegan and why does it matter?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzH6UEOz2Bs Freegan encyclopedia https://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism Freegan discussion where we respond to Vegan Gains dumpster diving video and tell our experiences https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3315

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Freeganism on Community Post

Heya don’t know if you thought about making another freegan video since interest will be peaked after Vegan Gains kind of bungled an attempt to introduce it to people. You said after your last one you would like to hear more stories from freegans, a few of us are talking about our experiences on the forum thread below:

How Much Food Can You Find In A Dumpster? (Vegan Gains)
https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=32437

And you can ask me any questions you like, I’m building a wiki advice page on it also, so would like to break down the research on health risk and campaign projects that see it as a vital resource like ‘Food not Bombs’ and ‘Hugh’s War on Waste’:

Freeganism (wiki)

Maybe you could even do one on the zero waste lifestyle as it connects to minimalism and one on freeganism as it connects to abundance.

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Impact: (from Wikipedia)

Media coverage of freeganism in the United States peaked around the financial crisis in 2007-2009 and dropped off subsequently. More recently, freeganism has been discussed in the context of increasing public interest in food waste. Tristram Stuart, a prominent food waste campaigner and founder of the organization “Feedback” claims that media attention to freeganism was crucial in attracting attention to the problem. Other analyses of the origins of contemporary public policy initiatives around food waste have also concluded that freeganism contributed to new initiatives, like the French law on food waste or the U.S. food waste reduction challenge.

Youtube

Also if you just search freegan on youtube there are some great channels discussing all kinds like taking family on dives to the dog and cat food, vitamins, etc, that can be found:

Denmark’s Food Waste Vigilante – BBC News

War On Waste: Dumpster Diving Granny

Police Arrest 7 People For Serving Food To The Homeless In Public Park

5 Days Of Freeganism From Dumpster Diving To Clothing Swaps | Try Living With Lucie | Refinery29

Vitamin dive

Cat food dives:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQJJZrj1A2M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRlRjGKDAfg

Dog food and toys dives:
https://youtu.be/aUXXgaV_aYA?t=49s
https://youtu.be/Zv2clMXOf-U

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Some criticism to be had on all sides:

Naturalistic Fallacy:

The Ultimate Guide to Dumpster Diving By Assya Barrette / Greenhighfive

Assaya: When it comes to dumpster food, you need to throw away many of your assumptions on food and food freshness that you’ve gotten used too. Remember, our caveman ancestors had nothing but their senses to distinguish between good and bad food. We can still apply them to determining edible dumpster food today.

Bearing vs Vegan Gains:

Me: Yea Bearing is wrong because his fundamental objection is ‘Eww,’ not a good argument, but Vegan Gains is also wrong for not doing a good job and as I predicted triggering a bunch more people than necessary. But if the standard is just being willing to make a video documenting this then A star I guess, like him wanting to film his grandad’s death, it draws people to the channel who have never herd of veganism in a really negative way, but how many he manages to convert after that is unclear.

So yea Richard was told the dates wrong on some bread by his mate, and neglected to check it for himself.
They could have all worn better protection gear.
They shouldn’t have said all the best stuff is at the bottom, it’s not, the best stuff is in double wrapped plastic bags at the top.
Rich shouldn’t have exclaimed ‘ooo (unpackaged) apples!’
They shouldn’t have shown that other guy picking unpackaged greens out of one bin.
He could have not brought it directly back into his kitchen without leaving it submerged in water to kill aerobic bacteria then re-packaging.
They could have made a video about a bigger haul, as it was their time and effort cancelled out a good nights sleep and someone making money at a good job the next day.
They should have mentioned to search for any recently recalled food items.
They should have also advocated for all the lesser intermediary actions people mentioned in the comments, recorded them talking to people at food markets and small shops asking them to put aside the food in clean bags at the end of the day to pick up at a designated time.

From the Bearing response video:

Radiation Network wrote: “. . .each item that was tossed was deemed unfit for human consumption on a case by case decision.”

Me: Not even close to being true, Radiation Network makes it sound like the staff are hygiene experts studiously going from shelf to shelf with high tech equipment, it’s the food production, labeling and shelfing system that needs a massive overhaul, if they order too much and it’s not worth stocking they throw it out early, if a freezer breaks they throw everything out early, if one product in a batch breaks they throw it out on delivery.

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Is overpopulation in the developed world a myth? on Overpopulation: Vegan Gains vs. Unnatural Vegan (vs. Reality).

Hmm it is disconcerting to say the least, another vegan not motivated by racial hatred but espousing some pretty racist political goals. For context I’d watch her video: “Antinatalism followup (I made a mistake)” https://youtu.be/toof3B97kQU I’m guessing her thinking goes along the lines of because the developed world has better national education, healthcare, it’s going to produce the highest IQ adults that are magically going to be a boon for the world by coming up with all the new ideas and shipping out charity coordinators? Just no, desperate need for sex education and access to contraception in a few particular pro-natalist places, often can simply follow where the catholic missions have been, otherwise having reasonable government policy for building the next generations workforce. As to overpopulated developed nations having to depend on food grown on the other side of the world, there’s a lot of substance to cover, from the present day big land grabs of Ukraine, Ethiopia and Madagasca, to all the famines in history when food was being taken out the colonies e.g. in Ireland and Burma. Also I know they’re just vlogging an experience they had, but I do wish Richard and Jasmine would acknowledge explicitly their baby hate isn’t rational and the product of bad childhood, the misanthropy isn’t a great image.

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Consequentialism on Mayim Bialik: The good old days of animal cruelty?

UV from 5:53 – “Being ethical means respecting the interests of other sentient beings as much as we can, and when those beings don’t want to die and you don’t have to kill them, it’s wrong to kill them, no matter how painlessly you do it.” I don’t see anything controversial there, the key words being interests, sentient and not having to kill them, interest consequentialism means taking into account the future interests of the sentient being to go on living, a scale of sentience to factor in and how necessary it is for you to harm those interests. The freegan case for eating euthenised decrepit rescue animals at the end of their life is fine because it doesn’t harm the interests of the sentient beings it’s just not commercially viable and not disrespecting their interests which is not what UV was talking about.

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Intersectionality on Why I’m not an intersectional/social justice vegan

As someone who subscribed to UV to watch her take down lifestylists living in an irrational utopian bubble, I see most of the comments on her video and facebook as people being genuinely perplexed that this one was so muddled and fallacious. A privileged vegan gave the most articulate critique of these mistakes so will leave to her since that video form is the most likely thing to get UV to respond to. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0gS2kMAbLI)

From a viewer’s perspective, I just wish it could have been so much better, to my mind the video should have been split into three parts; part 1 – why I’m a single issue advocate, part 2 – why I’m an independent and part 3 – why I’m not an socialist.

Her argument as it appears to me is that her job is public speaking which is changing people’s beliefs and engaging in a war of ideas, she can better do that leaving all political organization theory behind and engaging people with the evidence and how compassion is useful in ‘the moral landscape’. So saying that not all people have access to a vegan diet because of food deserts and finance is good activism, but stopping short of expressing an opinion on why there are food deserts and wage disparity in the country is about not margilizing people with other politcs and about good logical clarity, makes perfect sense, doesn’t negate how some people feel about new social movements increasing civil engagement and being a benefit to each other and democracy.

The second part is I think she confuses independent free thinker for centrist. It is clear she believes in a revolution of scientific rationality changing the shape of our world and that is where her focus is, most people just subscribe to a political theory that they think will get us there faster.

The third part is the most interesting and yet so muddled in this video, what she set out to do was critique those social justice vegans who don’t reward incremental steps towards veganism because their head is in so many political struggles that they can’t help reminding you every time you say something politically incorrect which make you feel like shit and not want to bother.

There are so many interesting things to be said here, essays to quote about giving up these purist activists subcultural expressions, identity policing, seed of resentment politics and slave morality among the underclass of society. All things the left have written about extensively, in an effort to create more critical movements, but instead UV chose to make absurd reductions out of intersectional political theory in general, which just turned off everyone who subscribes to the sociology of institutional oppression.

Saying all that it would be funny to rip UV’s script from ‘why are vegetarians annoying’ video response to hank green; and change it to convince UV that ‘even though only believing in single issue advocacy is comfortable, you’ll find more rational friends who are upfront about their left libertarian leanings, and though you may suffer a bit more social alienation at first, you will ultimately be on a stronger debating platform because having concrete ideas about how to organize a future society that doesn’t breed animals for slaughter looks like is appealing in many a myriad of ways.

“serve justice so as not to add to the injustice of the human condition, to insist on plain language so as not to increase the universal falsehood, and to wager, in spite of human misery, for happiness.” – Camus

“. . . The essential element of historical materialism as applied to ethical and social matters was (and actually still is) this: it demonstrated how much unhappiness and injustice and irrationality was man-made. Once the fog of supposedly god-given conditions had been dispelled, the decision to tolerate such conditions was exactly that—a decision. “The West,” at least, has happily never recovered from this discovery; you would be astounded if you looked up the books and commentaries of only a century ago and saw what was taken for granted before the Marxist irruption. Fatalism and piety were the least of it; this was cynicism allied to utilitarianism. Don’t let yourself forget it, but try and profit also from the hard experience of those who contested the old conditions and, in a word or phrase, don’t allow your thinking to be done for you by any party or faction, however high-minded.
. . . The life of a radical is not dissimilar; barricades and Bastilles are not everyday occurrences. It’s important to be able to recognise and seize crux moments when they do appear, but much of the time one is faced with quotidien tasks and routines. There’s an art and a science to these things; the art consists in trying to improvise more inventive means of breaking a silence, and the science consists in trying to make the periods of silence bearable.
. . .Do not worry too much about who your friends are, or what company you may be keeping. Any cause worth fighting for will attract a plethora of people: I have spoken on platforms with Communists about South Africa and with “Cold Warriors” about Czechoslovakia; in the case of Bosnia I spoke with Muslims who disagreed with me about Salman Rushdie and Jews who suspected me because I have always supported statehood for the Palestinians. Nor did we agree to bury these disagreements, though we sometimes moved them to a higher plane. (I remember Susan Sontag very bravely, in front of a pro-Bosnian audience that was heavily Turkish, insisting on the parallel with Armenia.)” – Letters to a Young Contrarian by Christopher Hitchens

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Intersectionality series on Upcoming videos (and ad revenue update)

Any idea when final video on social justice/ intersectional approach is planned?

Films, Video, Books and Essays: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/intersectionality/

Name the trait Wiki article coming along well btw: https://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/NameTheTrait

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I think with Ask Yourself’s inviting in of racists and the alt-right it’s the perfect time to emphasise and summarize your milk toast progressive single issue approach to vegan advocacy, especially with the title of the last video in the series proposed being “Social Science vs. Hard Science,” the way the right have run off with the term skeptic. This series was the first time we got a real glimpse of how veganism relates to your whole consequentialist philosophy outside of maybe the 1janitor response. If you need to do that critiquing intersectionality so be it. I’m for a socialist-liberal alliance, and taking from intersectionality what I find useful like ModVegan as well as appealing to and making alliances with conservatives when absolutely necessary to push something through. Also loved you’re response to Stef btw.

Will let you know anytime a bunch of pro-intersectional vegan videos pop up in hopes you round out your series then:

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Copyright on BBC

Trying to render the “what if the world went vegan” response in such a way that it doesn’t get claimed. Because BBC sucks.

Also, patreon tells me to “write anything, your patrons will love it”. Ew. I like this platform for the most part, but whoever wrote that needs to be fired lol

patreon text.JPG

Theo Slade

I’ve got a 3m clip from a BBC program up on my youtube which they stuck a contains copyright content sign on it, dont know if that means potential adrevenue would go to them. Also tried to put the program up in 5 parts, each under 10 minutes and they got automatically restricted before they could go up, so I’d say try not to put the words ‘BBC’ or ‘part’ in the title.

Don’t want to be that guy who does a one man kale seitan campaign aha, but last intersectionality video when you’re ready?

Some catalogued resources: activistjourneys.wordpress.com/intersectionality/ https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3379

Unnatural Vegan

I had some clips that were a little longer than 15 seconds and were being auto-detected. Once I removed those, no problem. Of course, BBC could still manually claim it later. We shall see!

Theo Slade

Good to know and great video! Hope not either, maybe you could claim fair use by citing your famous dry humor and call it parody? Aha.

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Intersectionality on Upcoming videos

Theo Slade

Last intersectionality video on hard science vs soft science when you’re ready

I suggest in favor of intersectionality:

  1. Wilfred Sellars: The scientific image of man
    2. Aragorn Eloff: Animal Liberation and the Implications of New Philosophy
    3. Kymlicka: Solidarity in diverse societies
    4. Cori Wong: Feminist Friendships
    1. https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/the-scientific-image-of-man/ 2. https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/contemporary-anarchism-animal-liberation-and-the-implications-of-new-philosophy/
    3. https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/solidarity-in-diverse-societies-kymlicka/
    4. https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/feminist-friendship-cori-wong/

Feel free to ask me anything you like or for clarification on terms.

_______ Quotes & Summaries ______

Wilfred Sellars: The scientific image of man

Kauffman: In other words, it’s not just about the world from a neutral description, from a neutral vantage point, it’s about the world as represented by people, all right? And that’s why a world that has normativity in it, that has agency in it. In the neutrally described world of science, there is no agency, that dryer, there is no normativity to me and are no values.

Massimo: That’s right and I think that’s why, the tension there I think comes out, still out of the fact that even though other scientists, even today in the 21st century suffer from physics envy. And so the physics has been, since Galileo and Newton, you know the paragon of science, and yes it is a great science, is a great approach to reality, but it is in fact the furthest away from the subjective point of view, from the normative point of view and so on and so forth. What biology gets closer and then definitely the social sciences get right there, and that’s why we have a plurality of Sciences, that’s why we’re not going to do away with the social sciences and reduce it to biology and then when we’ve got just biology reduce it to physics, that project to me is a non-starter, it makes no sense.

“Norms are not reduced away in Stellars naturalism…” and it’s important to remember that he is in fact a naturalist, he does accept the scientific image, doesn’t question it, doesn’t reject it, he’s not a mysticist, you know nothing like that. “He accommodates normativity, not as a basic ontological feature of the world, but whether as a conceptually irreducible indispensable aspect of the distinctively human activity, that ground’s those human activities,” so that I think is a very reasonable way of looking at them. [2]

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Aragorn Eloff: Animal Liberation and the Implications of New Philosophy

Aragorn Eloff’s “Do Anarchists Dream of Emancipated Sheep? Contemporary Anarchism, Animal Liberation and the Implications of New Philosophy” focuses on the relations between contemporary anarchism and animal right/liberation through the lens of Deleuze/Guattari–inflected complex systems theory. The content is rich and thought-provoking. Indeed there is much to be gained from focusing on the interesting research findings that Eloff highlights concerning the number of vegans in the broader anarchist milieu. The insights into the rationales behind the responses are particularly illuminating. The essay also includes an engaging historical discussion of anarchism and animal liberation, which will be of general interest to many readers. The essay then focuses intently, and critically, on the abstract machine of hierarchy and domination, which leads to an important consideration of the implications that this has for the everyday practices as anarchists and/or animal liberationists.

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Kymlicka: Solidarity in diverse societies

In the postwar period, projects of social justice have often drawn upon ideas of national solidarity, calling upon shared national identities to mobilize support for the welfare state. Several commentators have argued that increasing immigration, and the multiculturalism policies it often gives rise to, weaken this sense of national solidarity. This creates a potential “progressive’s dilemma”, forcing a choice between solidarity and diversity. My aim in this paper is two-fold: first, to argue for the importance of national solidarity as a progressive political resource; and second, to discuss how it can be reconciled with support for immigration and multiculturalism. I will try to identify the prospects for a multicultural national solidarity – a multicultural welfare state, if you will – and to contrast it with the two obvious alternatives: a neoliberal multiculturalism that champions mobility and diversity at the expense of national solidarity; and a welfare chauvinism that champions national solidarity at the expense of immigrants and minorities.

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Cori Wong: Feminist Friendships

Feminism is hard and complicated—doing good feminist work and doing work to be a good feminist is even harder, says Dr. Cori Wong. White feminists have a long history of ignoring intersectionality within the women’s movement; rather than leveraging differences among women as strengths and a resource, they continue to be ignored. Dr. Cori Wong developed a model of Feminist Friendship to call attention to the skills we already utilize to maintain our closest relationships as well as allow us to better engage in social justice.

Wim Roos

Maybe a debate with someone else about intersectionality and/or animal rights is a good thing? I would like to see a debate about these topics Maybe with Jean-Francois Gariépy about animal rights and also with an intersectional vegan?

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Comedy emphasis on I live down the street from a celebrity.

But not just any celebrity. Like, one of my favorite songwriters ever (certainly my favorite lyricist). I’ve been listening to their music since my teens. I’ve seen them play live. I cannot express how much I adore their music, and how many great memories I have listening to it.

Yet I’ve never mentioned this to them. I’ve seen them on several different occasions, EVEN SPOKEN TO THEM (very briefly, when they were spraying off the sidewalk and they said something hilarious and adorable BECAUSE OF COURSE THEY DID)…but I’ve never let on that I’m a fan or even that I know who they are.

Mostly because they live so close and I’m sure they’ve seen me enter my building. I’d hate for them to feel uncomfortable knowing that I know where they live and that I live so close. Also, I’d probably say something dumb/embarrassing or just come off weird/creepy.

I know this has nothing to do with anything, but I’ve been living with this terrible affliction for so long and I had to share it with someone.

Timothy William Basham

In the most adorable of all possible worlds they would also be a secret huge fan of your youtube videos.

Kasia

Aww, that’s awesome! I understand how you feel. I think you could definitely let on that you know who they are and that you really enjoy their music and lyrics without coming off as in any way creepy. They obviously aren’t all that concerned with people knowing of them and living close by seeing as they haven’t isolated themselves. You can try and come across ultra chilled out and casual and even mention that you saw them as a teenager. If anything, I think they would probably be quite flattered! I think you might regret it if you don’t express your (massively played down) admiration of them. Worst thing that can happen is that you guys still won’t be best friends Super curious to know who it is now btw -_-

Mary Montanye

I bet they would be thrilled if you told them how you felt. And I agree with Timothy — they are probably big fans of yours, too!

Jailyn Dyer

You should say something nice to him or her.

Kim Julie

lol, I know exactly how you feel! I live in the same building as a musician I love and I just pretend I have no clue who they are whenever I seem them.

Theo Slade

“and they said something hilarious and adorable BECAUSE OF COURSE THEY DID” – Love it aha, also my mind went to Big Bang Theory; Penny: You look adorable! Amy: Of course I do because I’m a princess and this is my tiara! https://youtu.be/fL5w5ItceS0?t=18s

Trisha Z

Has it occurred to you that they may be the slightest possibility that she’s seen you on youtube?

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Freeganism on Community Post

Heya don’t know if you thought about making another freegan video since interest will be peaked after Vegan Gains kind of bungled an attempt to introduce it to people. You said after your last one you would like to hear more stories from freegans, a few of us are talking about our experiences on the forum thread below:

How Much Food Can You Find In A Dumpster? (Vegan Gains) https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=32437

And you can ask me any questions you like, I’m building a wiki advice page on it also, so would like to break down the research on health risk and campaign projects that see it as a vital resource like ‘Food not Bombs’ and ‘Hugh’s War on Waste’:
Freeganism (wiki)

Maybe you could even do one on the zero waste lifestyle as it connects to minimalism and one on freeganism as it connects to abundance.

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Impact: (from Wikipedia)

Media coverage of freeganism in the United States peaked around the financial crisis in 2007-2009 and dropped off subsequently. More recently, freeganism has been discussed in the context of increasing public interest in food waste. Tristram Stuart, a prominent food waste campaigner and founder of the organization “Feedback” claims that media attention to freeganism was crucial in attracting attention to the problem. Other analyses of the origins of contemporary public policy initiatives around food waste have also concluded that freeganism contributed to new initiatives, like the French law on food waste or the U.S. food waste reduction challenge.

YouTube

Also if you just search freegan on youtube there are some great channels discussing all kinds like taking family on dives to the dog and cat food, vitamins, etc, that can be found:

Denmark’s Food Waste Vigilante – BBC News

War On Waste: Dumpster Diving Granny

Police Arrest 7 People For Serving Food To The Homeless In Public Park

5 Days Of Freeganism From Dumpster Diving To Clothing Swaps | Try Living With Lucie | Refinery29

Vitamin dive

Cat food dives:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQJJZrj1A2M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRlRjGKDAfg

Dog food and toys dives:
https://youtu.be/aUXXgaV_aYA?t=49s

https://youtu.be/Zv2clMXOf-U

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Some criticism to be had on all sides:

Naturalistic Fallacy:

The Ultimate Guide to Dumpster Diving By Assya Barrette / Greenhighfive

Assaya: When it comes to dumpster food, you need to throw away many of your assumptions on food and food freshness that you’ve gotten used too. Remember, our caveman ancestors had nothing but their senses to distinguish between good and bad food. We can still apply them to determining edible dumpster food today.

Bearing vs Vegan Gains:

Me: Yea Bearing is wrong because his fundamental objection is ‘Eww,’ not a good argument, but Vegan Gains is also wrong for not doing a good job and as I predicted triggering a bunch more people than necessary. But if the standard is just being willing to make a video documenting this then A star I guess, like him wanting to film his grandad’s death, it draws people to the channel who have never herd of veganism in a really negative way, but how many he manages to convert after that is unclear.

  • So yea Richard was told the dates wrong on some bread by his mate, and neglected to check it for himself.
  • They could have all worn better protection gear.
  • They shouldn’t have said all the best stuff is at the bottom, it’s not, the best stuff is in double wrapped plastic bags at the top.
  • Rich shouldn’t have exclaimed ‘ooo (unpackaged) apples!’
  • They shouldn’t have shown that other guy picking unpackaged greens out of one bin.
  • He could have not brought it directly back into his kitchen without leaving it dunked in water to kill aerobic bacteria then re-packaging.
  • They could have made a video about a bigger haul, as it was their time and effort cancelled out a good nights sleep and someone making money at a good job the next day.
  • They should have mentioned to search for any recently recalled food items.
  • They should have also advocated for all the lesser intermediary actions people mentioned in the comments, recorded them talking to people at food markets and small shops asking them to put aside the food in clean bags at the end of the day to pick up at a designated time.

Radiation Network:. . .each item that was tossed was deemed unfit for human consumption on a case by case decision.

Not even close to being true, Radiation Network makes it sound like the staff are hygiene experts studiously going from shelf to shelf with high tech equipment, it’s the food production, labeling and shelfing system that needs a massive overhaul, if they order too much and it’s not worth stocking they throw it out early, if a freezer breaks they throw everything out early, if one product in a batch breaks they throw it out on delivery.

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Destiny vs Vegan Gains on Upcoming Videos

Finished the Destiny-Vegan Gains script and am currently editing a response to That Vegan Couple’s video on the Belgium baby who died because his parents fed him quinoa milk as a replacement for breast milk. ;(

One thing I don’t mention is the number of times…just realized I don’t know her name (the lady part of that vegan couple lol). Anyway, I don’t mention the number of times she laughs in the video. I don’t think she’s intentionally being malicious/uncaring or anything, but it’s really off-putting given the subject matter. Along with the dismissive nature of the video, it just doesn’t look good.

Anyway, back to work. Thanks, everybody!

 

Theo Slade

Happy days, look forward to it. I went back and found the video on Destiny’s channel in the post debate where he says “I feel like I constructed the most like, I had this house of cards that I was sitting on the entire time, I was so worried.” If that’s not an admission of not having a leg to stand on, I don’t know what is. Then he waxes about not knowing what his moral framework is and a bunch of Vegan Gains arguments about speciesism which he admits he can’t get out of without going to deontological maxims he doesn’t think make sense. Definitely winning over meat eaters, do you think you would ever do a live debate or panel discussion?

From 127:00 https://youtu.be/-Ssj0AYumQY?t=2h7m48s

Destiny wrote:Holy Shit! Oh my god! I don’t know how!? I don’t know how we navigated that conversation? Boy phew, but I think, I think we’ve, I think we got there, I think we got there in the end, somehow, I don’t know how? But somehow I think we got there in the end.

TheAntiTheist wrote: [Destiny] I’d like to talk to you about your social contract [memes]

I’m not talking to anybody about this, I feel like I constructed the most like, I had this house of cards that I was sitting on the entire time, I was so worried.

Destiny totally won that debate? You’re all or nothing argument for a meteor totally confused him, however since meteor is just a space rock, it makes you sound like a sociopath, be yourself

I feel like this isn’t the end of the vegan topic

Well we’re not even done with the autism topic yet dude.

I think this discussion heard a lot because he kept talking about morality unethical assuming that there are moral facts that are inherently so like okay so hey let me finish you some of our moral facts that are here to in “I’m jaded,” right or wrong in morality is some kind of ontological thing that we discover instead of creating. You clearly don’t believe this, but he kept thinking that you do, he kept arguing from the sort of morality, well you argued purely out of self-interest, denying moral realism from the start would have made it clear?

Yeah because he kind of seemed like a moral realist, people seem to hate moral relativism, that Stephan Molineux guy, I don’t know, I think I might be like really morally relativistic, I’m not sure if, but a lot of people seem to like really shit talk moral relativism, so I try to never use that word but um?

Do you actually believe everything you said or were you playing it up a little?

No I believe everything I said, I’m never gonna, I’m not going to go full JF and say some shit that I don’t believe for the sake of a fucking debate, that’s fucking retarded, I would never fucking do that, unless I’m telling you, unless I’m telling you like hey, like I’m you know just as a hypothetical but I’m not going to go and misrepresent my views to try to like troll somebody, win an argument, that’s a fucked thing to do like I dunno. People should talk about moral relativism because you don’t understand it. Yeah, maybe. Destiny, you got destroyed in that debate, you could have played that so much better, If I just kind of like think it out a little bit, like some of the problems is that um. Some of the problems that I have is that um. Well so let’s say that you have another human that’s not capable of recognizing the social contract. Why not just kill the human period, why not, just kill them outright and I would say something along the lines of like, well it’s because they’re human, why does being human matter, speciesism is kind of an axiom that I accept, that I don’t think I ever really defined. Like why do I care about humans more than like pigs, do I really have a reason for that or is that just like axiomatic? I don’t like axioms, I’ve discovered that axioms are the things that I hate the most, of all the things that have ever existed its axioms, these unjustified assertions and you just have to make it, except it’s true. I don’t I don’t know but then I guess maybe, we go into social contract memes, what about dogs, you can train a dog to respect humans quite a bit, the dog won’t hurt a human, the dog won’t go into your yard, the dog will respect pretty much everything you can, what right would you have to kill a dog right? If I if a dog with a sufficient level of training is capable of respecting me as a human in every sense of the word, what right would I possibly have to kill a dog, I’m not sure you.

You can’t not accept something as a presupposition?

You say that Cobain, but one day, when I die and I meet my creator god, I will discover the fundamental truths of the universe, okay? Well I guess those are just be my new axioms, ok.

Please stop throwing around the term social contract

So how is this not like a social contract argument, am I doing this wrong?

That guy was a literal fucking retard.

I don’t think he was a retard at all or no I think he was really really really reasonable. I think that we kind of got off on a couple points and I think he kind of he ran around a little bit but I probably did too, but I don’t think he was retarded, I thought he was pretty intelligent. You guys were all telling me that he was like really fucking crazy and shit and I thought he was perfectly reasonable during that conversation.

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Accessibility on Community Post

Heya UV, I have a couple of suggestions but apologies at the outset if you’ve already considered this and I’m just saying hypothetical ideas that you’ve already disregarded as not useful to you.

I really value your educational content and it’s of big interest to me at this point in my life, so I thought it was only right that I chip in some solidarity at the point where YouTube is basically acting like a bad boss docking pay without chances of appeal, since it’s still going through it’s growing pains and could happen again at any time, I’d encourage anyone interested in your content to do the same.

Unfortunately, I won’t be able to stay on 5$ and will go down to 1$ at some point as I’m not in a very stable financial situation at the moment, but I know there are other ways I can help like transcribing videos, reviewing your content and sharing to friends and public to get others interested.

Sorry I know this will sound stingy to even talk about on a site to support you bringing in more money, but i think it would be great if you could make all discussion available to those who pay 1$ and then the thank you gifts to those who want to donate 5$, 20$, custom infinity after that, it’s just I relish any shred of vegan community online, and would like to help in other ways if at all possible. I think the paywall makes sense to restrict to genuinely interested participants in discussion, without the need for a forum mod to police a free service, but yeah I would just like to see the discussion that was had on early video releases and work in progress scripts open to 1$ and above patrons after the video is already released, I think people would still pay what they are able to and it wouldn’t be less than what you are currently receiving.

For ideas on ways people can participate here are some examples of reward schemes that other subscription channels use, which you could simply put out there as stuff which would help publicize the work you do, and share with you if it’s something big you would want to know about/ add to your portfolio:

  1. Write a Review. If you’re a skilled writer who likes to talk about veganism, consider reviewing our site or a favorite episode for your website. We will give you press access to our site for one month in exchange for an honest and thoughtful review.
  2. Transcribe. Transcribe our videos to text. Each one is approximately 10 minutes long and take 20 minutes to an hour to transcribe. In exchange, you’ll get a free month membership to work on the transcription and then enjoy the rest of the time to watch what you like!
  3. Translate. Do you speak a language besides English? Transcribe our text content into other languages — especially valuable for vegan vocabulary that accurately reflects our nationalities.
  4. Educate. Use our videos / photos / essays to illustrate your educational articles on your website or lectures. Go to colleges across the country? Share our ideas with your students.
  5. Peer reviewed. Get studious about effective activism, writing your own research paper or graduate thesis? Interview our content producers or quote us and bring advocacy into the academic arena.
  6. Fundraise. We are constantly donating membership subscriptions to community fundraising events. Check our Charity Support page or Facebook for updates about events. Throwing an event? Ask us for membership giveaways.
  7. Earn Commission. Become an Affiliate and promote our site on your blog. Invite friends to sign up through your links.

I’ve transcribed 5 of your videos for the online forum philosophicalvegan.com, there might be an easy way for me to upload them to your videos if you went to this link and clicked ‘on’ to enable community contributions (you can still lock certain aspects and set it so you get to review them before they go public)
https://www.youtube.com/timedtext_cs_queue?optin=true
– support.google.com/youtube/answer/6052538?hl=en

The only problem is like all these youtube tools in beta development, the usability function is really poor, on videos where I’ve seen it enabled to a limited degree, you have to caption manually and fiddle with the time codes which would take forever and stupidly laborious. So as a work around I’ve found it possible to upload a mirror video, auto-transcribe, edit and auto-sync, then download the transcription format (srt.) and re-upload it to the original video through the community contribution feature. The difference between 10-20 minutes and an hour or two. So if there’s a way to enable the ‘transcribe and auto-sync’ tool through community contributions feature so others can upload them for you, that would be the easiest, second to that would be linking you the transcriptions in a google doc, then you upload them by going to video manager > edit specific video > Subtitles CC > Create new subtitles or CC > Transcribe and auto-sync > copy the text from word doc and paste into transcription window > set timings (automatically).

Here are some examples of transcripts I did earlier, they aren’t complete as I left the very end post-script, out-take stuff off because I originally intended to quote your main thesis for an educational resource. But anyway now I know what I’m doing I’d be more than happy to link you the full length transcripts of any more that I do:

7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets
In essay form: http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3126
In transcript form: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g-aCUkn-ondTI1M0wwbzFxLUk

Alienation and the importance of focused activism
In essay form: http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2997
In transcript form: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g-aCUkn-onR0ppd3p4dWc4dHM

Don’t care about animals? 5 reasons you should still go vegan
In essay form: http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3181
In transcript form: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g-aCUkn-onM21rNW1xb2Zid3c

Ethical Milk: Is it possible and what would it cost?
In essay form: http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3215
In transcript form: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g-aCUkn-onUXFyZnBYSFpzcUE

Re: Stef Sanjati “Why I won’t go vegan” (some thoughts on transphobia)
In essay form: http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3167
In transcript form: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g-aCUkn-onMmFrbmJ1WHpWWGc

I know for some second or third language English people, that they find transcriptions really useful as they want to read as they listen. The punctuation and fixed auto transcript errors will also provide a better automatic google translation, that can be worked on to produce foreign language transcripts. As well as for the hard of hearing and having text people can easily quote when using you as a source on a topic.

Sorry that was super dense, in summary if you’d like to have me message you a google docs link of the cleaned up transcript when you make an educational video, in transcript and essay format, it only takes a few minutes to do, and you can add it to your closed captions. As a bonus here’s an easy and free way to transcribe audio to text for anyone who’s interested through youtube:

If you go to underneath the video title and username there should be 3 options: Add to, Share and More. Click on ‘More’ and it gives you a drop down list of; Report, Transcript, Statistics and Add Translation. Click ‘Transcript’ and a section will open between the video and description. Click on English (Automatic). Then if you right click and drag to highlight over the whole transcript section, click copy, open a word document and paste. Furthest right on the toolbar is a ‘Replace with’ button, in the ‘Replace’ section write 0 and ‘Replace with’ section leave blank, then hit ‘Replace all’. Repeat with 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9. Then Replace ^p:^p (paragraph + colon + paragraph) with 1 space. And you should get a block of text minus timecodes, it sounds complicated but only takes a minute once you get the hang of it. You can then find transcription errors and replace with correct spelling, add paragraphs for sections in the talk and punctuation. It’s also a really fast and free way of getting a good transcription of any video or audio you wish just by uploading to youtube, and after you’ve taken the steps above you can turn it into closed captions again by going to video manager > edit specific video > Subtitles CC > Create new subtitles or CC > Transcribe and auto-sync > copy the text from word doc and paste into transcription window > set timings (automatically).

Unnatural Vegan

Thanks for the ideas! I don’t think I’ll be changing the tiers at this time though. Unfortunately I don’t really have time to verify transcriptions/translation/etc. right now.

Theo Slade

I should have separated my comment into 3 parts as think it got lost in translation.

Firstly I said I liked the idea of setting up a patreon to give workplace solidarity when the boss (YouTube) is docking pay unfairly with no possibility of refund. It’s not nice when someone is relying on that income (especially if they’ve just had a baby), they should be able to expect some economic stability, and its great that viewers that get something out of the show can step up and help out where the boss fails.

Given their unease with taking money from people in the past (shutting down patron) and now (for workplace solidarity), and the relatively sparse number of places where people can find good rational vegan discussion, I wondered if they would think about opening up the discussion under old 5$ 20$ posts (early video uploads and work in progress scripts) after the videos have already been released publicly and the early bird privilege is fulfilled.

Secondly I gave an example list of other ways people can publicize their channel as a good vegan educational resource “which you could simply put out there as stuff which would help publicize the work you do”, not meaning as any subscription service right now, but leaving in the language of pay per month as an example if that is something UV wanted to move to in the future if YouTube collapses (as econimically viable for small DIY content producers) as others are doing like ‘DeFranco Elite.’ Right now just making people aware that there are a few projects which would help improve the service they can deliver and their public reach through transcribing, reviewing, academia, and publicizing, that they might like to hear about if it happened?

Thirdly I talked for ages about the difficulty in implementing community contributions on youtube and work arounds I’ve found useful. Concluding that it’d probably be easier to cut out the middle man of YouTube and send transcripts directly, if that were something they’d want?

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Stream Some Stuff

Camus and script writing on Rick and Morty: Rejecting Nihilism

This is the best, most concise, most down to earth video out there on the existential virtue ethics of the show, I love it, how you break down the character development and script writing and everything.

I cleaned up the transcript to post to a forum for discussion, you’re welcome to use it for closed captions if you think that’d be useful. Just have to copy and past it into the transcribe and auto-sync option under video manager.

Video manager > edit specific video > Subtitles CC > Create new subtitles or CC > Transcribe and auto-sync > copy the text from word doc and paste into transcription window > set timings (automatically).

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Since it first premiered in 2013, Dan Harmon’s Adult Swim show ‘Rick and Morty’ has been framed as a nihilistic show that explores the meaninglessness of human life and existence, it’s easy to see why people have repeatedly reached this conclusion over the show’s run but it also is an interpretation I believe is wholly incorrect.

Nihilism if you’re unfamiliar, is the belief that human existence is devoid of meaning, purpose, truth and value.

Rick and Morty is a show that actively spits in the face of nihilism and presents infinite meanings, purposes, truths and values.

Now the show does often bring up the philosophy of nihilism through 1. Dialogue, 2. Characters and 3.Story

However it only ever does this to subvert the idea and reveal a better alternative, not because the show is nihilistic itself.

  1. Dialogue

Even though Rick is the most nihilistic character on the show, the most cited piece of dialogue is this line from:

Morty wrote:Nobody exists on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere, everybody’s going to die, come watch TV.

And yeah on the surface that does introduce the idea that life is devoid of meaning and purpose, but the irony of this line is that the subtext says the exact opposite. Morty says this to convince summer to not run away, to stay where their family is because that’s where she belongs.

The context of this interaction further underscores that there is a purpose in place for each of the characters, as Morty pointed out just seconds earlier:

Morty wrote:That out there, that’s my grave.

Summer wrote:Wait what?

Morty wrote:On one of our adventures, Rick and I basically destroyed the whole world, so we bailed on that reality and we came to this one because in this one the world wasn’t destroyed, and in this one we were dead so we came here and we buried ourselves and we took their place.

This reintroduces the question brought up episodes earlier when Rick and Morty actually do destroy the world, why do they need to live on earth with the family at all, there are infinite realities, Rick could have easily have found one that would have been more interesting to him on an intellectual level and could have helped him avoid being annoyed and held back by the rest of the family, but he and Morty found a reality where they could keep things exactly the same and stay with their family.

Just about every piece of nihilistic dialogue on the show does the same as this one and points to the fact that there is actual meaning in life through human connection, it’s why Dan Harmon gave Rick and Morty a grounded family on earth, rather than having them travel through space and time with no anchor because that was the best way he could explore the true theme of the show.

But I’m getting ahead of myself, that’s why Rick and Morty live with the rest of their family on earth on a meta-level, but what about on a narrative level?

  1. Characters

As a character, Rick constantly tries to convince those around him that he doesn’t care,

Rick wrote:As far as grandpa’s concerned, you’re both pieces of shit, yeah I can prove it mathematically, actually let me grab my whiteboard, this has been a long time coming anyway. . . So in conclusion you’re both equally mercurial, overly sensitive, clingy, hysterical, birdbrain hurmunculai.

And he’s usually successful, even though it is evident that he does:

Gribbels wrote:This is special agent Gribbels, you have a tip about Rick Sanchez?

Rick wrote:Yeah he kidnapped me in my family and he left us on Dwarf Nine, said he was going to go to the plimp plomp tavern and listen…

Gribbels wrote:Yes?

Rick wrote:I’m doing what’s right for the galaxy by calling you, so if we come back to earth, can my family have a normal life?

Also something that needs to be said, is that even if Rick were a true nihilist as a character, that wouldn’t make the show a nihilistic show, but Rick isn’t a nihilist, he just wants to be one because it would make his life a lot easier, he’d be able to abandon his family on earth and wouldn’t feel the need to sacrifice himself for Morty.

But on a deeper level Rick wants to be a nihilist because intellectually he knows that when you pull back your perspective it is true that nothing matters.

Harmon wrote:Do I agree with Rick that nothing means anything? No, I do not, because the knowledge that nothing matters while accurate, gets you nowhere, the planet is dying, the Sun is exploding, the universe is cooling, nothing’s going to matter the further back you pull, the more that truth will endure.

But no human, not even Rick lives life from that perspective, we live much more zoomed in.

Harmon wrote:But you zoom in on earth, when you zoom into a family, when you zoom into a human brain and a childhood of experience, you see all these things matter, we have this fleeting chance to participate in an illusion called I love my girlfriend, I love my dog, how is that not better?

Rick tries to dismiss ideas about love, family and human connection, but I believe these are subtle jokes, rather than the show actually speaking through the character.

Take this scene for example:

Rick: Listen Morty, I hate to break it to you, but what people call love is just a chemical reaction that compels animals to breed, it hits hard Morty then it slowly fades, leaving you stranded in a failing marriage, I did it, your parents are going to do it, break the cycle Morty, focus on science.

This is an accurate assessment of love, but here Rick tries to dismiss the whole notion by explaining how it works, which doesn’t make logical sense, knowing how an engine works doesn’t make your car useless, knowing that love is a chemical reaction doesn’t make it less real or meaningful.

Rick knows this despite him believing love doesn’t matter on an intellectual level, he still allows it to guide his decision-making throughout the show when it really matters. And when it really matters is usually at the end of an episode.

  1. Story

Rick and Marty often begins stories with characters being confronted with an amoral or a nihilistic worldview, either through another character or through circumstance, but these ideas are usually introduced so the show can create arcs that bend against them, towards meaning and empathy. That’s true of Beth and Jerry’s repeated B stories about their marriage and of Rick and Morty’s insane A stories. This understanding is empathy and familial love, the same things that keep Rick living on earth.

This is how the show explores its real theme, Rick and Morty’s thesis is that life can have whatever meaning we want it to have, but the happiest one we can impose on it is one where we value the connections we make and hold with other people.

Rick and Morty as a show embraces life’s infinite meanings, purposes, truths and values as much as it embraces the idea of infinite realities. And yes this is partially accessed through nihilism but even when the show does genuinely embrace that philosophy, it does so not to say that nothing matters, but that anything can.

Harmon wrote:Knowing the truth, which is that nothing matters can actually save you in those moments, once you get through that terrifying threshold of accepting that, then every place is the center of the universe and every moment is the most important moment and everything is the meaning of life.

Thank you all so much for watching. . .

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Also a note about Camus – From Solitude to Solidarity; How Camus Left Nihilism Behind
vqronline.org/articles/solitude-solidarity

By late 1942, shortly before he entered the French Resistance, Camus was reassessing the limits of absurdity. What would the world make of a thinker who announced: “Up to now I was going in the wrong direction. I am going to begin all over”? It didn’t matter, he shrugged. He, at least, knew it was proof that “he is worthy of thought.” Absurdity, he saw, was nothing more than a first step toward the truth. In his private journal, he wrote that the absurd “teaches nothing.” Instead of looking only at ourselves, as do Sisyphus or Nietzsche’s superman, we must look to others: We are condemned to live together in a precarious, unsettling world. “The misery and greatness of this world: it offers no truths, but only objects for love. Absurdity is king, but love saves us from it.”

Love saves us from absurdity. At this point, Camus shed Nietzsche: Commitment to others becomes primordial in a world streaked by the absurd. This is the subject of The Rebel, a book conceived during the occupation and published in 1952. The rebel, affirms Camus, rejects not just metaphysical, but also political absurdity: namely, a state’s insistence on giving meaning to the unjustifiable suffering it inflicts on its citizens. The rebel not only says “no” to an unspeaking universe, but also says “no” to an unjust ruler. The rebel “refuses to allow anyone to touch what he is. He is fighting for the integrity of one part of his being. He does not try, primarily, to conquer, but simply to impose”—to impose himself on a meaningless world, as well as on those who deny his humanity.

Most critically, however, the rebel seeks to impose a limit on his own self. Rebellion is an act of defense, not offense; it is equipoise, not a mad charge against an opponent. Ultimately, it requires an active watchfulness in regard to the humanity of others as well as oneself. Just as the absurd never authorizes despair, much less nihilism, a tyrant’s acts never authorize one to become tyrannical in turn. The rebel does not deny his master as a fellow human being, he denies him only as his master; and he resists the inevitable temptation to dehumanize his former oppressor.

For Camus, rebellion lives only as long as does the balance between daring and prudence. Hence Camus’s embrace of a profoundly un-Nietzschean “philosophy of limits.” Since we cannot know everything, this philosophy argues that we cannot do anything we please to others. Rebellion, unlike revolution, “aspires to the relative and can only promise an assured dignity coupled with relative justice. It supposes a limit at which the community of man is established.” Revolution comes easily, while rebellion “is nothing but pure tension.”

Ultimately, rebellion means unending self-vigilance: It is the art of active restraint. At the end of The Rebel, Camus declared that our task is to “serve justice so as not to add to the injustice of the human condition, to insist on plain language so as not to increase the universal falsehood, and to wager, in spite of human misery, for happiness.” His many critics dismissed this phrase as mere grandiloquence, a heroic glibness disguising an absence of deep thought. Yet the truth of the matter is that there is nothing glib or easy about Camus’s claim. Instead, it recognizes the difficulty, doubts, and desperation tied to true rebellion, and the realization we must live with provisional outcomes.

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Jack Green

Hunting & Promoting Nazis on The Golden One vs. Veganism

Heya, in the description you wrote; “These were made after he defended the attack on soy from Paul Joseph Watson.” Where you meant to write “defended soy against an attack by PJW.”

If you take an ideal like the most amount of animals being able to exercise the maximum amount of their capabilities (i.e. managed wildlife habitat) as the moral baseline, then hunters who only eat what animals they kill is probably the least morally objectionable form of carnism.

The reason even carnists don’t like trophy hunters on the other hand is they recognize on some level taking life unnecessarily is bad for the animals and your own sanity, the cowardly part is obviously in them paying a few limited people to do it for them.

So there’s a number of tensions there. I’d be happy in principle to make alliances with hunters to campaign to protect keystone species or habitat. Killing invasive species is also something we just need to do until can find cheap and easy ways to sterilize animals in their feed.

Also what are your thoughts on not promoting people who link Nazi propaganda films in their videos?

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Activist Journeys

Commented on Dead Man Analysis – Psychedelic Western, Colonialism & Spiritual Purgatory [Mirrored Clips]

Similarities with The Revenant; Screencrush covered a great review of that film here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1fZsLoLeT8

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UV vs ABLC on Critique on Unnatural Vegan vs à-bas-le-ciel: on making the personal/private – public

Whether the arguments in the facebook and forum groups for Buddhist meditation had any substance is kind of relevant to whether he was “out of line” in not choosing to provide thorough counter arguments. Having a little moan about how it’s a struggle to find interesting segway’s into talking about someone else’s ideas you find uninteresting doesn’t equate a failed attempt at providing decent counter argument either. Especially when you’re explicitly saying you’re just tired from being inundated with the same questions from viewers, but still answering them in the video. He was bound to get round to critique of UV’s arguments which he did. à-bas-le-ciel vs. Unnatural Vegan On Domestication https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqRNOagVZDVedH8wZ-udB42EeP-55jvy3 Skepticism vs. Meditation (& Unnatural Vegan) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jqo-vqEhJk

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Hell or High Water Clips

Yes a great twist, like he almost has to live up to the clarity and peace of mind his partner had, to make up for the time he lost.

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Which is all the more interesting that they managed to capture such a novel dynamic and put it on film no?

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Heya, I just uploaded short clips that wouldn’t give away any major spoilers but found the clip you were looking for – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7ZFJkWzBaE – it was really poignant, as well as the ending porch scene. Thanks for your comment, here’s my playlist of clips – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwWfjn8zzak&index=1&list=PLqRNOagVZDVeIdfPUyqFtOIUNaS9nQf3i

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Yeah it’s a shame it’s even getting bad reviews for that language, the whole film for me is a pursuit of what it means to live authentically and Marcus has a good way of provoking those questions in his partner by playing around with stereotypes from history. I do think the language should be restricted to those old characher roles who are stuck in their ways, not something to mimic if you’re young. Anyways I think most feel sympathetic with him at the end of this scene, and then you’re right about the rest of the movie and the character arcs, as his partner gets his own back when he leaves him speechless in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDoCPxxi7To&list=PLqRNOagVZDVeIdfPUyqFtOIUNaS9nQf3i&t=1s&index=3

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That’s so cool, it’s obvious to me now you say it, but after watching behind the scenes interviews with the director it still didn’t click. Thanks for pointing that out. Did a great job and much better than other directors like Tarantino when he puts himself in his films aha.

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Parallels with Good Will Hunting – It’s not your fault scene – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92D15qtI_Gk

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OGMizen

Condolences and Appeal on Why I Wont Be Uploading For A While..

So sorry, this is heart wrenching, you know what’s right for you in this time and hope all your family and friends gather round, all I can do is donate, but know we’re all thinking about you and Danny and know you’ll get through this. Anyone else share this around for solidarity —- Paypal at: o.g.mizen@hotmail.co.uk —- Patreon at: patreon.com/OGMizen

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Richard The Dick Coughlan

When you going vegan? on This Video Needs YOUR HELP

Why’d you let your stomach make the decisions for you about what is ethical? Let Mexie bum you with a banana till you submit to being mostly vegan =D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpIiSBRbySAWhen you going vegan?

Happy days! Sorry I missed that, correction then: When do you think you’ll make the time to stop by supermarkets and reduce your ovo-lacto consumption to veganism? I said reducitarian because didn’t want you to think of vegans as Jainists, but some worse stuff going on in the dairy-veil industry than wild fish trawling, nicer to be consistent ay? Don’t worry about slip ups whilst traveling or anything, if you need to think of yourself as mostly vegan who eats ice-cream and wears full-body skintight leather onesies that’s awesome too 😛

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TheVeganPolice

Wildlife Management on Eisel Mazard’s wildlife management approach

Yo Cameron, it’d be easier to understand your critique if I knew the clip or video in particular you were responding to: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/a-bas-le-ciel-categorised/ But will give you my thoughts anyways, Eisel disagrees with a kind of puritan; “down with pest control” or un-relatable anti-speciesist rhetoric, they don’t like domestication for how we deform animals to our own interests, and they contrast this with the wild animals that gain pleasure from achieving tasks only they can do by their own merits, that there’s some dignity in this aesthetic we can appreciate subjectively like poetry and more ethical. So I think it’s a point on advocacy priorities and resource allocation when he contrasts having to shoot a bear that enters a community looking for food vs. factory farming or breeding puppies to have breathing difficulties vs. shooting a bird out the sky that has lived a fulfilling wildlife up to that point. He thinks all habitat that humans would like to live in is disadvantageous to animals, so I think he would agree with you about urban sprawl, he has proposed giving half the earth to other animals habitat preservation, which would mean dramatically reversing much land settlements and an out of pocket not for profit workforce aimed at helping those animals achieve a perfect equilibrium, and helping them out with vetinary care in cases of injury by accident or disease that could wipe out whole food chains.Again I think the point is that this is the best solution and we can’t be glib about humans having to also protect themselves by shooting animals even when they’re trying to help them and facilitate the best outcomes for the most amount of animals. Hope that helps clarify a few points to start with, really happy to talk more, and I agree with ModVegan send him a question over message on patreon, he’s always got back to me.

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I’m just curious what loophole you feel he is creating? Do you think his ideas about putting more energy into lobbying against factory farming than hunting gives a pat on the back to hunters in some way? He also says if you want to put all you’re energy into rescuing one giraffe from a zoo that’s great, I just view it as him saying we’re mass exterminating cockroaches etc with our council taxes, rent money, there’s animals in the tarmac, he wants to take out factory farming which is the greatest harm, and has an ideal image in mind that he’s promoting which is let’s help the animals re-wild and let’s pull back from environmental destruction, not be puritans or coy about the violence that goes on in the animal world, let’s help create habitats which support the most life possible. I don’t see any loopholes there, and he’s extremely sure of his principles, so much that he considered murdering a guy for lying to him about beef renin in bread, went hungry for 36 hours after riding a bike all day because there was no vegan options at train station etc, and would refuse cake from grandma: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1as3pCENur0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ6KVHoxdK4 https://youtu.be/jinpP2_shF0

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Obvs no one is putting up signs, more like wildlife corridors, earth walls and not for profit park rangers on hand, the idea is that urban sprawl into dense animal habitats isn’t working, we need to pull back settlements and create very human centric cities, and very animal centered reserves.

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When it comes down to the fundamental design it needs to be human behavior centric, so life in those cities functions at it’s smoothest and most productive, we can tag onto that all manner of green architecture, vertical farming, using recycled materials etc. But the functioning of anthropocentric cities enables the preservation of wildlife habitat, as people who want to build business’s should be able to do so cheaply within cities rather than constantly expanding into green zones. That has the most chance of reversing the tide of environmental destruction, which will create a real 1:1 equal consideration for human and wildlife needs. Not to say that people can’t live outside of cities, just much stricter designs to beef up wildlife habitat capacity: https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3201&p=31283

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Indy

Deontology on Deontology, Consequentialism, & Animal Ethics: A Response to TheVeganAtheist

Heya, really interesting video, hitting on a lot of good points. Since you worked from a script do you think it would be possible to post the full transcript to the forum for easy re-reading and sourcing the arguments? Or in a message or reply to this comment? You can also create better closed captions for the hard of hearing and second language English by going to Video manager > edit specific video > Subtitles CC > Create new subtitles or CC > Transcribe and auto-sync > copy the text from word doc and paste into transcription window > set timings (automatically). We opened up a thread to discuss the video here – https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3402 You might similarly be interested in this thread: Virtue Ethics is [essentially] a form of consequentialism https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3365&hilit=virtue Where I’m arguing in favor of virtue ethics being it’s own school, I’m also interested in W.D.Ross’s prima facie duties via Daniel Kauffman’s work, and conceive of my ethics like this: Amoral nihilism is the obvious truth that we enter into the world as more or less blank slates with tools to learn faster in some areas better than others. Consequentialism is the minimal universal prescription we can sign up to and know things will get better. Don’t attend to the virtues and people will resist the slow pace of change. Virtue ethics is the coping mechanism to finding meaning in suffering. Only act like moral exemplars because that is what one does without understanding it and risk bad faith. Subjective Deontology means attending to a web of prima facie duties, in order to have your character judgement have meaning. Ethical nihilism is the highest order help principle driven by authentic desire cultivated in virtues throughout your life. Each of these has their negative opposite from utilitarians cynical hard ceiling, to deontology’s absolutism, to liberation theology’s authoritarianism. In as much as someone sees no value in expanding their circle of development they are being authentic by staying on the rung they feel is most productive, but there is a line that follows through all these universalist prescriptions towards a spectulative realism that matches the truth of our chaotic existence.

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That would be great, thanks! My email is activistjourneys@gmail.com Thanks for permission to use on the forum, I hope you’ll join and respond if you see any good responses worth tackling. Subscribed and look forward to new videos 🙂

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AMP3083

Commented on Send Me Your Questions (Q&A)

Yo, I’m lazy so recycle questions in vid: What does AMP3083 mean? Not the jokes reason you give people about it being your age and YOB 😛 Why ain’t your channel monetized? I know you recycle a lot of clips so a lot will be copyrighted and adsense goes to other people, but that shouldn’t stop you from choosing discrete ads on ones that aren’t CC’d, it’ll allow you to rise the ranks of youtube algorithm faster and can reach more people and you can do something amazing with the money. Do you have a 9-5 job? Or you be out there hustlin’? Or looking after an elderly relative? Is you married? Latest love interest, do they/did they share the same philosophy as you, that you promote on the channel? What is your fav movies, tv, music, authors, comedians? OK, my own obvious one: You managing to plan more vegan meals for yourself and fam? Spreading that love for all human and nonhuman beings who are harmed by factory farming? Latest vegan anarchist propaganda: https://youtu.be/gvEBa2PgO-w

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Does Anarchism follow from Veganism? on WordPress: Some Thoughts For Ethical/Philosophical Vegans

Heya, interesting subject! Posted to the forum for discussion – https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=32740#p32740 Here’s my reply: Like pest control, sometimes the only solution is killing, you can’t let a mite infestation take over your home and make living in it unbearable, because if you moved out someone would just move in and do the job for you. What matters is prevention, and there are a bunch of political philosophies duking it out for which system will lead to the least amount of suffering, if you vote for someone advocating violence purely for lulz like the Russian minister that proposed legalizing football hooliganism, then you could say it isn’t vegan, but even then you have to discredit they’re argument that it’s not a valuable release valve of pent up energy. As to the non-aggression principle, it sounds great in theory, but what about volunteers who sign up to fight ISIS in Syria because they got angry at images of people being burnt alive? I’d think that was a valuable motivator, what’s the status quo we are basing non-aggression on? The territory ISIS have already acquired? Or a few years ago when they didn’t have any? Or a 1000 years before that when there was a fairly sizable caliphate? Or a few 10s of 1000 years before that when we were all hunter gatherers? Interesting subject anyway, I understand you were only referring to puritanical vegans but they are more on the absolutist deontology side, Vegan Gains has brought up the pest control issue, and buys video games with money he knows could have gone to relieving the burden on helping starving children, the concept of maximum wrongness does extend pretty far in utilitarianism, but that’s not my philosophy and practically when advocating for veganism, it’s better to use the vegan society definition of avoiding animal exploitation and suffering as far as is practicable as possible. Arguing someone out of supporting a war mongering neocon might be easier if they are an ethical vegan, but they probably genuinely believe that will result in the least amount of suffering for everyone. I understand you’re still struggling with whether to prefer morals based on consistent metrics like universal suffering and happiness, I think AskYourself might have just been disavowing moral realism, but still prizing consistency in moral choices towards good ends and character. Are you still mostly vegan? How’s that going?

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Wow you are busy, busy. No worries, you articulate a great thought experiment, just the thing for the forum and the index of the wiki. Whenever you feel like checking in with the project you can do, otherwise just wish you the best 🙂

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I guess it would be compatible to those who follow that NAP definition to the letter, also incompatible where anarchists centre class and think animals will get counted later, also incompatible with statist vegans who think we’re helping all people and animals by war-mongering and growing the prison industry (by some conception of protecting against a larger threat). I posted two good essays to the forum discussing these overlaps: ‘Nailing Descartes to the wall’: Animal Rights, Veganism and Punk Culture,” https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3179 Contemporary Anarchism, Animal Liberation and the Implications of New Philosophy http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3180 The thought experiment comes down to purity vs pragmatism or somewhere in between, we can try to argue vegans out of voting for and supporting unethical statists because of the domination inherent in the system. It could be done and there is something to be gained from the overlap of both: Refusing to Wait: Anarchism and Intersectionality http://www.anarchistnews.org/content/refusing-wait-anarchism-and-intersectionality But I as an anarchist platformist think trying to withhold taxes and not choosing when there is a legitimate option between one candidate further away from liberation and one closer is a mistake and one likely to hurt yourself and the cause of liberation. ‘By any means neccessary’ an-coms have also been historically more willing to use coercion as this article explores: “A wider vision”: Coercion, Solidarity and Animal Liberation. https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/a-wider-vision-coercion-solidarity-and-animal-liberation/ And sign up as international brigades to fight against fascism, which is why I brought up ISIS. Congrats on taking those vegan choices, when I visit family way out in the countryside, they often rely on the corner shop so I have to plan to bring in vegan food for myself. Braving to make the connection between the animal and food on your plate and learning to enjoy cooking alternatives is a virtue that you just have to turn into a habit to really commit to.

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Habit forming, consciousness raising and conscious staying power, all important attributes. Toats have a facebook my good man: https://www.facebook.com/theo.slade.1

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Sounds good, will have a look around their site tomorrows for common ground to bridge a conversation, they sound like an interesting open fellow.

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Terence McKenna on Terence McKenna: Language Is Best Used To Lie

Heya, opened a thread on Terence McKenna on – https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=31219#p31219

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Destiny

UV Debate on The Social Contract – Responding to ‘Unnatural Vegan’

Respectfully Destiny, you missed so much by not watching UV’s video, I transcribed it for you so it should only take you 3 mins to read and digest the arguments properly this time, you can even come onto the forum to discuss it with us where you don’t understand – https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=32233#p32233

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Or you know Destiny pinned something they saw merit in, the advice of a friendly commentator, to be open to expanding their worldview a little, and many of his fans who don’t want to do that and stay in their little bubble decided to bitch and moan, thinking if other people are bitching nonsensically too that must make me right aha, it’s pretty standard.

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UV is arguing against the coherency of all axioms, as she said in her video if you watched it, she has many videos debunking deontology. Moral relativism and Rawlsian veil of ignorance that was supposed to be used in a very limited political extent, not philosophy, is just one of the easiest to debunk. Other nations in ww2 might have been able to argue that their contractarian model was more productive than fascism, but contractarianism in and of itself is inconsistent, so might makes right is the only way to enforce it. I’m an existentialist, but I accept that consequentialist philosophy and resource mobilisation theory is air tight, it just doesn’t have everything I desire so I look for softer virtue ethics, but still within the sphere of consequentialism. Destiny and his fans are lost in a post-divine command deontological framework which is just not consistent, no matter how much you’d like it to be. Respectfully to Destiny and all his fans; you missed so much by not watching UV’s video, I transcribed it for you so it should only take you 3 mins to read and digest the arguments properly this time, you can even come onto the forum to discuss it with us where you don’t understand – https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=32233#p32233

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veggieworld

Comedy on Vegan idioms

I came specifically for a solution to bigger fish to fry I was let down by the lack of fish in the sea, jokes, comedy video.

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Cori Wong

Intersectionality on Positive Philosophy and Politics: Practicing with Both Sides (Dr. Cori Wong)

Fab work! Genuinely exciting ideas 😉 I understand it isn’t always possible but would love to follow the chain of thoughts and ways you were drawing from existential/liberation authors going back to the thesis and chalk board that started it all in the original conception. Anytime you can post essays, you have an enthusiastic audience eager to absorb, from the effect you had on so many with your ‘Think for a Change’ series I’m sure. Btw I was cataloging a bunch social justice, pro-intersectional vegan advocacy and found your Feminist Friendships lecture really useful so copied the auto-transcript, cleaned up the transcription errors and posted it here: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/feminist-friendship-cori-wong/ Here’s the catalogue for context: https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/intersectionality/

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Rachel Tess

Noise Attack on Why I Eat Fish as a Vegan

So funny, my nervous system went into fight or flight mode for real.

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+Rachel Tess He was referring to the loud beep towards the end, agreeing with you the oceans are fucked, just making a joke.

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Edwin’s Generation

Freeganism on I’m Vegan, But I Could Eat Meat

Heya, just found your channel and subbed. I understand the hesitation with the term freegan being rooted in a squatting, shoplifting subculture, I just want to let you know it’s taken on a different much broader use since then to mean anything from urban gardening, foraging, freecycling, gleaning and talking to food sellers and restaurants to arrange a time to pick up their left over food that can’t be sold. It doesn’t have to replace veganism as a term you call yourself, it’s just like saying I’m doing something freegan today as freegan is a portmanteau of free + vegan, you can also think of your practice as freegan-lite 🙂 There’s a lot of great charities that are trying to help change the production and distribution chain so that farmers don’t have to waste crops, supermarkets change their shelving practices and householders food lasts longer. Many activists I know mapping streets for urban apple trees, organizing street kitchens with wonky veg pulled from farmers fields and sharing fermenting recipes l know call their actions part of a vegan-freegan movement so I wouldn’t feel any shame in using the term freegan 🙂 Here’s some links: Unnatural Vegan’s Food Waste & Freeganism (Part 2: What is a freegan and why does it matter?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzH6UEOz2Bs Freegan encyclopedia https://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism Freegan discussion where we respond to Vegan Gains dumpster diving video and tell our experiences https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3315

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Freeganism on Vegan Responds To Criticism From Vegans

Totally back you up! We send out a survey asking if people support meat grown in a lab + meat that would otherwise go in the trash as moral to test rationality 🙂 Check out our page on acting freegan-lite being a valuable tool also: https://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/freeganism/

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